141–150 of 155 posts
Relevant recent ACOUP (Brett Deveraux) post: https://acoup.blog/2022/08/26/collections-why-no-roman-indus...
That was a compelling read, and to my untutored eye raises more important points than this one. Economics trumps ingenuity.
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> Recently I dug teeny bit into pocket watches, and then wrist watches, which turnst out were a thing way longer than I imagined! Weren't these handcrafted by highly skilled and highly paid specialists for a long, long time. In contrast to more modern mass production.
Yes; so I think that's where scope or intent of statement may come in. I think: * We were able to craft, manually, things much more precisely for much longer than some of us thought * We were able to design/engineer/mass-manufacture precise things for far shorter than many of us thought
Which is probably a good reason the early steam engines didn't take off. You could build something in the lab, but there was no way to affordably mass produce a usefully efficient version.
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Modern people overestimate how long we have been able to engineer things precisely. I used to use a lot of vintage German cameras. Really right up through the 1950s the tolerances were wide enough that no two cameras were exactly alike. The parts were all replaceable, and there were often adjustments & shims inside to keep things in spec. For example, one camera might have part A that's a little long so it's matching…
> Modern people overestimate how long we have been able to engineer things precisely I think you're underestimating it also. For example, micrometres capable of measuring imperceptible differences have existed for many centuries, same for manufacturing machines (lathes, mills) that can shape objects to imperceptible requirements. Cameras probably just don't require such precision.
Humans are capable of detecting extremely small details with their fingertips[1] anecdotally, this can be trained if you use your finger tips for precision work a lot, you can easily feel things that you can't see without significant magnification.
Additionally, I would push back on "many centuries", the Machine age came about in the mid 19th century, so if were being generous, 300 years[2].
[1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130916110853.h...
[2] https://archive.org/details/englishandameri01roegoog/page/n2...
[2] is cited on the wikipedia page for micrometer. Cool book though, might read it.
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“I had a 89 Corvette...designed in the late 70's early 80's before computers were generally used to do so. It was a mass of shims and slotted holes to get things to line up.” This has nothing to do with computers. Detroit just didn’t care about building decent cars back then. Mercedes and many others were able to build very nicely designed cars long before CAD/CAM was available.
Wouldn't you know it, the mercedes door handles from 1985 used slotted holes[1]. As much as you like them, Mercedes cannot transcend the technical abilities of the time. [1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/174693656016
I think the reason is best described by Factorio. Yes, with a lot of spaghetti belts and manual crafting, you can make late-stage products. But to do it well, in a way that transcends merely being able to make a handful of items, you need a huge underlying economy. You end up having to re-arrange your whole factory, or you need to clear new land, which means you need to spend some time on diversions like improved mil…
A nice explanation for the "rate of progress" is the percentage of the population that is not involved in the production of food. Since the dawn of humanity up until "very recently" in the grand scheme of things, something like 95 to 98 percent of the population were directly involved in food production. There were the odd shamans, priests, tribal leaders, or what have you, but everyone else made themselves busy hunt…
For some people and areas this just involved wading into a river for a few minutes every other day.
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Optics absolutely had shims in this era. Talking 1930-1950 era Leica lenses for example. 50mm lenses that you can’t just swap in a replacement element without adjusting shims because they would match them and shim at factory. I recall some lenses from the era having their actual exact focal length inscribed inside since they weren’t exactly 50mm and the variance was 0.2mm or so. Don’t even get me started on Soviet ca…
Recently I disassembled a Nikon lens, the first 24-120 with VR as the VR constantly engaged. The plan was to disconnect the VR unit completly and use, interim, without VR. Didn't work, as apparently apperture control (electronic in this lens) and focus (AF and manual, also electronic) go over the same platine. No VR, that worked, but also no focus or apperture. Point of the story, the lens had some shims to get into…
Another question you might ask is why wasn't the computer invented earlier? Babbage and Lovelace came close but they didn't realize they had (almost) invented a computer they just thought they had invented a calculator. They thought they solved a math problem when in fact they had solved a physics problem. We could have been traveling between stars by now.
Even if a competent project manager had been in charge, steam-driven mechanical computers would have been extremely expensive, physically large, and very slow. Most of the time, I’d expect special-purpose devices would have been more cost-effective.
The technologies to build electronic computers didn’t exist for another half-century at least.
An important factor seems to be precision engineering. I saw the point made in The Perfectionists: How Precision Engineers Created the Modern World by Simon Winchester, where they argue that while all the science and experimentation was there, it wasn't until precision parts were widely available that steam engines really solved all their problems and became viable https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35068671-the-per…
While science fiction, the Safehold series by David Weber gets into this. As the series opens, everything is made by its own guild/foundry to the point of cannon balls for one ship wouldn't work on another because of the lack of standardization. Guns (muskets) where such that if a part broke you needed a gunsmith to craft a new part for it... which might have slightly different dimensions so it was best if it didn't…
But the build up to creating the universe, the prelude, and then all the historical engineering details were so good I didn't mind skipping over all the attempts at having characters after the initial scene was set.
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Wouldn't you know it, the mercedes door handles from 1985 used slotted holes[1]. As much as you like them, Mercedes cannot transcend the technical abilities of the time. [1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/174693656016
I guess my comment was more about the general build quality of US cars from the 70s. I have worked on some and it seemed they were just thrown together without any thought or care.
Another question you might ask is why wasn't the computer invented earlier? Babbage and Lovelace came close but they didn't realize they had (almost) invented a computer they just thought they had invented a calculator. They thought they solved a math problem when in fact they had solved a physics problem. We could have been traveling between stars by now.
But how useful would a mechanical general-purpose digital computer have been? Even if a competent project manager had been in charge, steam-driven mechanical computers would have been extremely expensive, physically large, and very slow. Most of the time, I’d expect special-purpose devices would have been more cost-effective. The technologies to build electronic computers didn’t exist for another half-century at leas…