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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#141

Post by phpisthebest »

bbbobbb wrote: post #137
phpisthebest wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>(we get 1 year for 80% pay, first 6 months full pay, then 5 years protection against dismissal) That is just crazy.... I would hate to be a chidless person in your country, I can not image the extra amount of work that get places on people that do not have children... As someone that will never have a child I like the fact that the US does not force this kind of parental leave on employers, I know that will be very…

sorry what extra work? you know the company is able to hire more people right?

You know companies have budgets right? you can not just "hire more people" and remain profitable, no profit no company.

Companies are not charities created to employ people.

So sure if only 1 person is off on leave most likely another person could be hired

But 5 years of protected leave..... What percentage of the work force is going to be out on that? Also since it is very hard to terminate someone in the EU, what happens to the employees that are "filling" the positions of those people out on 5 years of leave? can they be terminate or do you have to keep them employed even after the original employee returns?

If you can be terminated would you take a job knowing the second the parent returns you will be terminated

Parental leave should be measured in weeks, not years. If you want to be a stay at home parent for years, leave the work force and then return...,.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#142

Post by em-bee »

webstrand wrote: post #138
phpisthebest wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>(we get 1 year for 80% pay, first 6 months full pay, then 5 years protection against dismissal) That is just crazy.... I would hate to be a chidless person in your country, I can not image the extra amount of work that get places on people that do not have children... As someone that will never have a child I like the fact that the US does not force this kind of parental leave on employers, I know that will be very…

On the other hand, it sounds like it might be viable to have a kid there. Two parents working full-time in the US struggle when they have a kid, due to the loss of income. Our system worked a lot better when both parents were not expected to work, it's kind of broken now.

which is exactly the point. birthrate is already bad enough as it is. for the moment this is compensated with immigration, but eventually support for parenting may have to increase even further if we want to keep the birthrate up.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#143

Post by trevvr »

phpisthebest wrote: post #133
geek_at wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European in general. My wife works for a biotech company in Austria which was recently aquired by an american company and it's so funny to hear about their efforts to adapt to EU law and culture. Most of their training material is still unchanged from their US branch so there are things they list as benefits for all employees like - 3 Weeks paid vacation (we get 5 by law) - Health insurance (you know the drill) - 3 w…

>>(we get 1 year for 80% pay, first 6 months full pay, then 5 years protection against dismissal) That is just crazy.... I would hate to be a chidless person in your country, I can not image the extra amount of work that get places on people that do not have children... As someone that will never have a child I like the fact that the US does not force this kind of parental leave on employers, I know that will be very…

That is not a hot take my friend? Do you pay your taxes? Sales taxes? Does the company you work for pay their taxes? Do you intend on retiring with a pension at some point?

Rising tides and boats comes to mind.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#144

Post by mhuffman »

inopinatus wrote: post #59
wiseowise wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definition of superior (Entry 1 of 2) 1 : situated higher up : UPPER 2 : of higher rank, quality, or importance https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/superior Boss is by definition superior to your position, not in a sense better, but higher.

not higher. the graph is topologically unchanged if you draw it with the CEO at the bottom, and so on. don’t be hoodwinked by bad analogies, or the arbitrary demands of insecure narcissists

Well, I mean your boss can fire you from the company but you can not fire your boss from the company. So in that sense they are "superior".

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#145

Post by BlargMcLarg »

phpisthebest wrote: post #133
geek_at wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European in general. My wife works for a biotech company in Austria which was recently aquired by an american company and it's so funny to hear about their efforts to adapt to EU law and culture. Most of their training material is still unchanged from their US branch so there are things they list as benefits for all employees like - 3 Weeks paid vacation (we get 5 by law) - Health insurance (you know the drill) - 3 w…

>>(we get 1 year for 80% pay, first 6 months full pay, then 5 years protection against dismissal) That is just crazy.... I would hate to be a chidless person in your country, I can not image the extra amount of work that get places on people that do not have children... As someone that will never have a child I like the fact that the US does not force this kind of parental leave on employers, I know that will be very…

Grey mass is a huge problem in most of Europe and we do realize most people want children and not break their back trying to fund them.

There are better solutions (teaching individuals to be more financially responsible and kicking overly rich capitalists to the curb, for one) but that's preaching to the choir.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#146

Post by trevvr »

tyfon wrote: post #81
belter wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus cue in the shock of US Employees, when they realize his court costs to sue his employer were less than 500 dollars.

In Norwegian civil court, the loser pays the legal bills for both. It may seem a bit harsh, but it does prevent frivolous law suits. For work related cases, if you are in a union, they will foot the bill in most cases.

I wonder if this makes court cases a pretty high stakes game for even the smallest of issues? Interesting concept all the same.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#147

Post by ghaff »

lucb1e wrote: post #113
6stringmerc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very similar in Texas - it is called At Will employment. Other states are Right to Work. Each has pros and cons. I’ve only lived and worked in Texas so At Will is very close to “for any reason” as long as it’s not against the law. Don’t like your haircut? They can shut can you on the spot. On the flip side, if one day you go in and you’ve just had enough of the hourly retail job and think you can get a better one, yo…

> Usually we flash the double V for Victory sign and say “Peace out!” when that’s the case. It’s fun. Sounds like a good way to burn bridges. If I'd show up to work one day and tell them to suck it up for the next few months of planned projects, I do know what kind of reference my boss would provide to future employers. It's not about loyalty or something, but so long as there isn't anything egregious, it does seem r…

>it does seem reasonable to me that both sides can expect a notice periods

Two weeks is pretty customary and normal in the US. A few months of planned projects being a reason you "can't" leave really is not. I generally have projects in some stage of planning going out a while. That wouldn't mean I'm effectively tied to an employer for te duration.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#148

Post by tartoran »

lloydatkinson wrote: post #139
blub wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIPs are a tool for managing out employees that don’t perform well or don’t yield to often abusive company demands like e.g. overtime or pissed of somebody in management or connected to management.

I’ve never ever ever seen a PIP used in a positive way. It’s almost always been a way for petty toxic management that resented an employee not tolerating an abusive environment.

Of course PIP got a huge potential to be abused, it’s like a weapon in the hands of management. I’ve never been under a PIP but if I were I’d urgently look for work.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#149

Post by maxwell »

phpisthebest wrote: post #135
brabel wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite honestly, if anything, I think we (and I truly mean nearly everyone here) in the EU have far more than necessary to have a decent life and doing anything more "business savy" would not have any positive effect on our lives at all. Yes, maybe we could make a little bit more money by being more business crazy, but what's the point if you get nothing you actually desire in return?

This is one of the culture differences between the US and EU for alot of people (though this is changing in the US) Personally I value my "work". That is not to say I value my efforts for my employer which makes this hard to explain. I do not find value is laying around, vacationing, sports, or any other traditional "leisure" activity. I like to work So even when I am not "working" for pay for my employer, I am still…

https://www.hellahealth.com/blog/wellness/regrets-old-age

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#150

Post by brightball »

sebazzz wrote: post #36

I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

You say that, but stories like this will just mean US companies hire fewer Dutch remotes.

I’ve already seen it happen, after legal claims using “lines of code” to assert ownership of the code base.

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