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Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

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Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#141

Post by darepublic »

ble wrote: post #65
hayst4ck wrote: post #40

This is jaded and angry, but I think there is another archetype called "the politician." They play the game extremely well, providing poorly thought out solutions quickly to problems they haven't dug into the complexity of. They lay operational traps everywhere in their quest to get things done fast (like directly embedding config data in code to avoid fixing the config format). Once they've picked the low hanging fr…

I usually think of an at-work "politician" as somehow taking advantage of relationships or social forces. What you describe sounds more to me like the ""10X engineer"" (with extra scare quotes for good measure). Many people have been skeptical of the idea of the 10X engineer. One take is that if your normal engineers are less than 1/10th as productive as another engineer and all of them are merely human beings, there…

No it's more like at some organizations the culture is very apathetic and the mean dev there has very low throughput. So you can be "10x" merely by caring to the level a professional should. And ironically in those situations it's the low throughput devs creating all the tech debt, with their copy pasta and infinite one off solutions.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#142

Post by 29athrowaway »

bioemerl wrote: post #68
ble wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually think of an at-work "politician" as somehow taking advantage of relationships or social forces. What you describe sounds more to me like the ""10X engineer"" (with extra scare quotes for good measure). Many people have been skeptical of the idea of the 10X engineer. One take is that if your normal engineers are less than 1/10th as productive as another engineer and all of them are merely human beings, there…

In the workforce - the real answer is that the 1x engineers really really aren't operating at full capacity. You assume all parties give it their all. They rarely do. Get through college Do what you have to in other to get the job. Do what you have to in order to keep the job. 10x people do some very basic things. They care. They read about code. They have side projects. They improve their skills because doing so is…

More often than not, it's people that care about how to create abstractions that amplify their productivity.

That is only possible if they can spend some time building abstract stuff that cannot be explained to non-technical stakeholders, which is not possible with sweatshop engineering methodologies like Scrum, or when you promote the smiling bozos that completed their 5 person-minutes Agile crash course to management.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#143

Post by davewritescode »

jacobr1 wrote: post #108
hayst4ck wrote: post #40

This is jaded and angry, but I think there is another archetype called "the politician." They play the game extremely well, providing poorly thought out solutions quickly to problems they haven't dug into the complexity of. They lay operational traps everywhere in their quest to get things done fast (like directly embedding config data in code to avoid fixing the config format). Once they've picked the low hanging fr…

There is also the "positive" version of the politician. They have enough technical credibility, social skills, relationships with senior management, to remove organizational log-jams. Other companies might hire a consultant to come and tell them what they already know they need to do (but can't organizationally agree to do) - but with this archetype, you can call them in and they will cut out the bullshit, somehow wi…

I have found myself in this archetype before. Management wanted a feature, went to the architects and got some INSANE estimate that couldn’t be justified by the revenue that would be coming in. Management felt like they were being told to fuck off with crazy estimates and they weren’t completely wrong.

I was asked to review the proposal by a VP, came up with some simplifications, presented it back to the same architects and we delivered it for 10% of the anticipated cost and the feature was profitable in year 1. It’s had no defects because it was a simple design.

Sometimes you need people who can speak to managers and engineers with credibility to get things done.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#144

Post by hayst4ck »

woah wrote: post #116
hayst4ck wrote: post #40

This is jaded and angry, but I think there is another archetype called "the politician." They play the game extremely well, providing poorly thought out solutions quickly to problems they haven't dug into the complexity of. They lay operational traps everywhere in their quest to get things done fast (like directly embedding config data in code to avoid fixing the config format). Once they've picked the low hanging fr…

Their crappy code might be generating millions of dollars in revenue while you fix it and curse their name

True! But it might also grind the company's ability to release features to a halt creating a stagnant stock price and an underwhelming IPO because they chose to avoid the hard work of migrating, refactoring, and simplifying, or setting a culture of maintainable code preferring more easily marketable (and probably more fun and less failure prone) feature work that also looks much better on a resume.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#145

Post by 29athrowaway »

zmj wrote: post #137
tzone wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have never seen a 10x engineer you either have never worked with truly talented people or you haven’t worked on actual hard problems. There aren’t just 10 or 100x engineers , there are even infinityX engineers when you work on actual hard problems because some of those can only be solved by handful of people.

This reminds me of an old essay: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/07/25/hitting-the-high-n... The thesis is that the "10x engineers" don't output a linear multiple of the same kind of work their peers do. Instead, they implement solutions that their peers wouldn't or couldn't over any length of time. This matches my experience.

The 10x engineer identifies common subproblems across different problems, and then creates a layer of reusable code which becomes a library. Then uses this library to write code 10x faster.

The 10x engineer tries to standardize problems and solve them en-masse.

The 1x engineer sees every problem as a different problem that requires a different solution.

The 10x engineer talks about abstractions, the 1x engineer talks about concrete implementations.

The 10x engineer believes in investing in productivity. The 1x engineer wants a visible solution right now.

The 1x engineer never has time because they're too busy making themselves less productive by owning more and more code to maintain. The 10x engineer is always looking for code to remove and refactor, and making the solution as small as possible.

The 10x engineer will talk about programming language features and libraries that promote reusability, the 1x engineer only talks about tangible stuff.

The 1x engineer talks about their car and weekend, the 10x engineer talks about technology.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#146

Post by rjcjvyd77 »

coryfklein wrote: post #73
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are the glue that gets buy-in and agreement between people talking past each other. They demonstrate how a healthy organization can lead a team by setting guidelines for collaboration, communicating, being constructive, and removing barriers or silos between key stakeholders. That's a management function. If I took a Staff Engineer role and my job was to compensate for organizational dysfunction and fill voids…

Depends on the role of management in the company. At some companies there is a bright line where managers are expected to _not_ participate directly in the technical discussion of how to solve problems. So say, in such an organization, two teams each with a Staff Engineer are taking different and conflicting approaches, and neither Staff has been able to pursuade the other to their side? Often in this scenario it's e…

A stalemate between staff engineers isn't a technical problem.

Sounds like the bright line is the problem.

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#147

Post by torial »

ble wrote: post #65
hayst4ck wrote: post #40

This is jaded and angry, but I think there is another archetype called "the politician." They play the game extremely well, providing poorly thought out solutions quickly to problems they haven't dug into the complexity of. They lay operational traps everywhere in their quest to get things done fast (like directly embedding config data in code to avoid fixing the config format). Once they've picked the low hanging fr…

I usually think of an at-work "politician" as somehow taking advantage of relationships or social forces. What you describe sounds more to me like the ""10X engineer"" (with extra scare quotes for good measure). Many people have been skeptical of the idea of the 10X engineer. One take is that if your normal engineers are less than 1/10th as productive as another engineer and all of them are merely human beings, there…

The scare quote 10x engineer I'd consider a faux 10x engineer. I have seen them -- and working through their code is not pleasant. But I've also seen people who just operate as such a high level that their code is top notch from the get go, they think clearly about the problem and then have a clear solution. Those are the real 10x (or whatever multiplier you want to use).

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#148

Post by hintymad »

ble wrote: post #65
hayst4ck wrote: post #40

This is jaded and angry, but I think there is another archetype called "the politician." They play the game extremely well, providing poorly thought out solutions quickly to problems they haven't dug into the complexity of. They lay operational traps everywhere in their quest to get things done fast (like directly embedding config data in code to avoid fixing the config format). Once they've picked the low hanging fr…

I usually think of an at-work "politician" as somehow taking advantage of relationships or social forces. What you describe sounds more to me like the ""10X engineer"" (with extra scare quotes for good measure). Many people have been skeptical of the idea of the 10X engineer. One take is that if your normal engineers are less than 1/10th as productive as another engineer and all of them are merely human beings, there…

> Many people have been skeptical of the idea of the 10X engineer. O

Nah, of course 10x engineers exist. A 10X engineer saw that hundreds of engineers were writing MPI code to process data and struggled with error handling and therefore came up with a map-reduce framework and its underlying infra. The same infra also helped bootstrap a whole industry. In this case, we are talking about 10^6X engineer. Another 10X engineer got fed up with MapReduce's abstraction and decided to borrow more concepts from functional programming and also invented a little data structure called RDD. This is a 10^5X engineer. A 10X engineer saw that his org build ad-hoc solutions to provision hardware and therefore decided to build an abstraction layer called EC2. Oops! That's another 10^6X engineer. A 10X engineer was not happy that writing GPGPU code was slow and error prone so he decided to worked out a library called CUDA. That's another 10^4X engineer, no? A 10X engineer was fed up with people implementing all kinds of broken consensus protocol and coded out a little practical implementation of Paxos called Chubby. All of a sudden the world of engineers woke up to the idea that consensus can be centrally managed and can be robust. That's a 10^4X engineer, right? A 10X engineer hates that his org write ad-hoc and crappy code on Zookeeper, so he packaged his wisdom into a little library called Curator with two clean concepts: framework and Recipes, and thousands of engineers' life just got immensely better. That's at least a 10^3X engineer, right? A 10X engineer was not sure why it takes an artist years to write quality compilers, be it frontend or backend, so he decided to come up with this little framework called llvm. That's a 10^5X engineer, right? Oh man, I think I can write a book about the examples...

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#149

Post by boppo1 »

hintymad wrote: post #148
ble wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually think of an at-work "politician" as somehow taking advantage of relationships or social forces. What you describe sounds more to me like the ""10X engineer"" (with extra scare quotes for good measure). Many people have been skeptical of the idea of the 10X engineer. One take is that if your normal engineers are less than 1/10th as productive as another engineer and all of them are merely human beings, there…

> Many people have been skeptical of the idea of the 10X engineer. O Nah, of course 10x engineers exist. A 10X engineer saw that hundreds of engineers were writing MPI code to process data and struggled with error handling and therefore came up with a map-reduce framework and its underlying infra. The same infra also helped bootstrap a whole industry. In this case, we are talking about 10^6X engineer. Another 10X eng…

Were each of these really achievements by a single engineer, or a team? One guy wrote CUDA?

Re: Staff Engineer Archetypes (2020)

#150

Post by gautamdivgi »

notacoward wrote: post #78
voz_ wrote: post #10

Avoid all these other types except Solver (we call it Fixer at FB). Anyone who calls themselves these things is weird, and will be hard to rely on. Disregard levels. Disregard titles. Fix what needs to be fixed. Unit tests, CI, docs, there's no such thing as grunt work. Real leadership happens in the IDE and only code matters - everything else is overhead.

Tell me you've never functioned as a Staff Engineer without telling me... More seriously, please listen to what every other prominent staff+ engineer here, in blogs, on Twitter, even within FB, etc. has to say about the job. There are a great many takes, but by far the most common thread is that the most important part of the role is almost never about code. Many complain about not having time/energy to code any more…

To be fair you won’t have time to do a lot of code. I would even doubt code reviews. If you’re setting up initiatives that cross several organizations - the most critical aspect is getting down features, interfaces and guarantees down. Define ways to measure these and get out of the way. If you’re too deep in the weeds you could end up causing more damage and delays. See if you can get out of day to day meetings and find an interesting project to work on, hopefully as open source if your company powers that be agree. But with your title you will have an easier time getting that through.
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