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Analysis of Apple Watch running data

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Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#141
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So aside from accuracy, what's the difference between training with the feedback of timed laps on a track (be it Bannister's mechanical stopwatch and cinder track measured in imperial units), or a modern athlete running kilometer repeats on the road via their fancy Apple or Garmin smartwatch? One gives useful feedback at a scale that is practical and sufficient and does so at a small cost, the other tracks informat…

First, there's really nothing small cost about Bannister's stopwatch: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-omega-bannister-stopwa... Sure, I can pick up the awesome Casio F-91W today for £10 and it would do much the same job. But for the modern day money equivalent of that gorgeous Omega piece I'm going to be able to afford a high-end GPS watch. There's nothing comparatively exponential about it. Accuracy requiremen…

> First, there's really nothing small cost about Bannister's stopwatch:

I was unfamiliar with the term and incorrectly assumed it was a common type of mechanical stopwatch rather than a ridiculously expensive brand of stopwatch. The fallacy is straw man, because my argument stated mechanical stopwatch implicitly as an inexpensive alternative to an Apple or Garmin watch. You effectively laid a trap for me and I walked right into it. Well done. But whatever your point may be, it is beyond the argument that I have made. I have no idea what the difference is between two expensive products.

> Sure, I can pick up the awesome Casio F-91W today for £10 and it would do much the same job. But for the modern day money equivalent of that gorgeous Omega piece I'm going to be able to afford a high-end GPS watch. There's nothing comparatively exponential about it.

Again, this is a straw man argument you have constructed in order to attack it. Regardless, it is not my argument.

> Accuracy requirements will depend on training context - if you're running 60 second laps on a track and trying to shave 1 second of your mile PR like Bannister was, then you'll be wanting a certified track and decisecond accurate clock. If you're training for the marathon and running 5K repeats on the road, a few 10s of meters or seconds here or there doesn't really matter.

The only running I am aware of that requires accuracy to the hundredths of seconds available on $5 digital stopwatches is sprinting races. Sprinting is not a cardiovascular workout but instead an anaerobic exercise. Regardless, the $5 stopwatch will suffice in tracking either cardiovascular or anaerobic exercise.

> I can understand why some people don't want to run with a smartwatch, measure themselves, broadcast their progress to all on social media, judge themselves against others, and so on. (I also don't generally judge those who do, unless they're truly awful!) I can also understand why some people would rather not run with any measure of time or distance at all. They feel it gets in the way, they'd rather just run free, they'd rather just run for fun, or they'd rather just race others for places in the spirit of pure competition. I just can't get my head around the concept (and this isn't the first time I've heard it), that somehow old-school watches are acceptable but modern watches are bad. It smacks of neo-luddism (or sometimes hipsterism).

Again, this is a straw man, a rephrasing of my argument such that it is no longer recognizable as my argument. My argument was that these extremely complex and expensive accessories become the ends themselves, they distract from the original intent of improving fitness, trading the natural incentives for fitness with the incentive of being entertained by a gizmo, which fundamentally is vanity. Beyond that, I speculate that it is merely the difference that money can make, and in this particular case, the difference is negligible and entirely arbitrary.

Simply be aware that unnecessary reliance on affectations will synthetically make it more difficult to do the same activity if the affectations are removed, for whatever the reason they happen to not be available. Exercise is its own reward, and there is little reason to replace that incentive with the need to be entertained by detailed metrics of past events.

But that said, for the love of serenity, please do whatever makes you happy.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the best gps exercise watch you've used?

I have similar thoughts as OP (though I now use a Series 7 and have few to no issues with GPS now) - the Garmin Fenix 5 or Coros Pace 2 are pretty great. Ive done trail ultra's, road halfs, mixed bike races, city to city tours and everything in between with both. Coros doesnt integrate with as many things as I would like.

Garmin's entire line-up is pretty great. They focus on things that matter: honest GPS measurements and battery life being at the top of the list. I really like some of the new Tactix 7 features, like the ability to remember the route but forget the geo coordinates.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#143
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accessories aren't strictly required, but they can be a massive help. Being aware of your heart rate and your pace helps you get the best results from your exercise. Also, accurately measuring your times, and seeing even few seconds improvement since the last week's training helps keep you motivated. There are many reasons to use such accessories, other than "stroking vanity".

> Being aware of your heart rate and your pace helps you get the best results from your exercise. This is widely believed but scientifically unproven. The understanding of the significance of awareness of heart rate to workout performance is ongoing. Basically, tracking heart rate shows what is already known, that improving cardiac performance will improve resting heart rate. The stated purpose of doing so is to incr…

Again, more wrong. Zone 2 HR training induces a different physical response to zone 4. This is proven and measured. Zone 2 training increases mitochondrial function and burns fat. Zone 4 causes glycolysis and so on. These HR zones, reflective of effort, even exercise fast vs slow twitch muscle fibers differently.[1]

Having a device to help you stay in the right Zone is very valuable for effective training.

Large mirrors are in gyms to help with form when using equipment.

[1] https://youtu.be/-6PDBVRkCKc

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#144

> After about a kilometer I have to cross a busy street, I need to pause there regularly. Pausing always fixes erratic mode. Given that the “erratic mode” only impacts the beginning of the run and disappears suddenly at known locations, this sounds like an issue of delayed GPS lock. And given that the problem didn’t exist in the past, it could be a software issue due to upgrades. Or it could be a hardware issue that…

Couldn't the watch request the list of satellites locked to the phone and pretend to be locked to them as well, instead of building the list by itself?

Plenty of people, including the author and me, don't carry a phone any more, just a watch. Anyway the watch really needs its own fix as the phone will be displaced from the watch and have a different orientation even if you have it close by.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#145

This sounds like my experience of the Apple Watch Series 3—absolute garbage for exercise. I think the problem is the GPS hasn’t locked on when you start the run but there’s no way to know this in the UI. The only solution I’ve found is to “start” early, immediately pause, then wait a bit for GPS to locate you before unpausing. Most sports watches solve this problem by explicitly telling you your GPS status when you a…

What's the best gps exercise watch you've used?

Garmin for sure. I use a Fenix series but they have the Forerunner too.

I hear Suunto watches are good too. Basically any company that has been in the GPS space for a long time. Garmin has been doing GPS since long before Apple contemplated making phones.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#146

Related: DC Rainmaker just released his walk through of the new ultra https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/09/apple-watch-ultra-in-dep... Dc is the gold standard in fitness guides. My interpretation is that if you (like me) want a sports watch, buy a sports watch and not a smart watch with sports features. At least too many deal breakers for me. But they're getting better.

Second this, his Apple Watch Ultra review is amazingly detailed (like all his reviews), opinionated, and he does his best to participate in the comments.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#147

This sounds like my experience of the Apple Watch Series 3—absolute garbage for exercise. I think the problem is the GPS hasn’t locked on when you start the run but there’s no way to know this in the UI. The only solution I’ve found is to “start” early, immediately pause, then wait a bit for GPS to locate you before unpausing. Most sports watches solve this problem by explicitly telling you your GPS status when you a…

What's the best gps exercise watch you've used?

If you already have an Apple Watch, I recommend trying WorkOutDoors before looking for another device. It’s a huge step up from the default workout app that I’m still using my Series 3 for everything up to marathons.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#148

This sounds like my experience of the Apple Watch Series 3—absolute garbage for exercise. I think the problem is the GPS hasn’t locked on when you start the run but there’s no way to know this in the UI. The only solution I’ve found is to “start” early, immediately pause, then wait a bit for GPS to locate you before unpausing. Most sports watches solve this problem by explicitly telling you your GPS status when you a…

What's the best gps exercise watch you've used?

Garmin user for ages. Forerunner 9 series is my jam but you might want to find what works in your price point along with the need-to-have/want-to-have feature matrix of your choosing. Garmin's UX is stuck in the Symbian era of OS design. So I appreciate the competition that Apple brings to this segment.

Sport gear reviewer DC Rainmaker has a full write up on the good/bad/ugly of the Apple watch for athletes[0]. He also has plenty of other reviews on other brands of sports watches if you want to see what is out there for you.

[0] https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/09/apple-watch-ultra-in-dep...

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being aware of your heart rate and your pace helps you get the best results from your exercise. This is widely believed but scientifically unproven. The understanding of the significance of awareness of heart rate to workout performance is ongoing. Basically, tracking heart rate shows what is already known, that improving cardiac performance will improve resting heart rate. The stated purpose of doing so is to incr…

Again, more wrong. Zone 2 HR training induces a different physical response to zone 4. This is proven and measured. Zone 2 training increases mitochondrial function and burns fat. Zone 4 causes glycolysis and so on. These HR zones, reflective of effort, even exercise fast vs slow twitch muscle fibers differently.[1] Having a device to help you stay in the right Zone is very valuable for effective training. Large mirr…

> Again, more wrong. Zone 2 HR training induces a different physical response to zone 4.

I'm not sure what you expect to accomplish by using obscure and invented health industry terminology absent from medical science and citing this kind of evidence with a three hour long podcast that I'm simply not going to entertain.

Regardless, you have constructed a new straw man argument. My point was far less complicated, which is that expensive and complex technological devices as sport accessories distract from the natural incentive of improving fitness and are unnecessary and functionally duplicated with an inexpensive stopwatch. The natural incentive for improved health is traded for the incentive for being entertained by absurdly detailed metrics without advantage to the fundamental goal of improving fitness.

Unnecessary reliance on accessories will synthetically make it more difficult to do the same activity if the accessories are removed, for whatever the reason they happen to not be available, stolen, lost, broken, whatever. Exercise is its own reward, and there is little reason to replace that incentive with the need to be entertained by detailed metrics of past events.

> Your statements are bizarre and arrogant. It feels like debating with an edgy teenager.

More ad hominem attacks.

Please do not be concerned about the opinions of others. Please follow you heart and do what makes you happy. I strongly insist that you do.

Re: Analysis of Apple Watch running data

#150

> After about a kilometer I have to cross a busy street, I need to pause there regularly. Pausing always fixes erratic mode. Given that the “erratic mode” only impacts the beginning of the run and disappears suddenly at known locations, this sounds like an issue of delayed GPS lock. And given that the problem didn’t exist in the past, it could be a software issue due to upgrades. Or it could be a hardware issue that…

That was my theory too, so I started opening Apple Maps and viewing my location on my watch before starting my run, and anecdotally it increased the initial accuracy by a great amount
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