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Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

flyingmag.com

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Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#141

Post by freerobby »

storyinmemo wrote: post #136
kylecordes wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a pilot, not even a little bit; But I was under the impression that pilot training has a lot of attention on recovery from a stall or spin, and unless at low altitude, those are generally recoverable (in a small aircraft). Would love for someone with actual knowledge to weigh in, thanks!

In docile trainer aircraft the spin can be recovered from, but that's usually only allowed to be tested in the utility category which has more restrictive weight & balance limits. In famously efficient airframes, it can take several thousand feet. In this article, the famously hard to insure pilot killer the Lancair IV took 4,000 feet: https://www.kitplanes.com/taming-the-lancair-iv/ Part of the Part 23 (certified ai…

There's some folklore in that criticism. Cirrus listed CAPS as its spin recovery technique because it was the easiest + cheapest way to demonstrate that it meets FAR 23.221. EASA didn't accept that and required actual spin recovery, so a test pilot put an SR20 into a spin about 60 times without incident. It sounds like there is some technique to it, but nothing that couldn't be taught in transition training or that you wouldn't expect from such a slippery airframe:

> The Cirrus test pilot performing the spin program noted that while all spins entered were recoverable, they required a method of spin recovery that, while not unique in light general aviation airplanes, is different from that of a light trainer airplane in which a pilot is likely to receive spin training. Significant variability in spin recovery training techniques also exists – ranging from merely releasing the elevator control in some light trainers, to movement of the control to neutral, to brisk forward movement to neutral, to brisk foreward movement past neutral, etc.. In the case of the SR20, the proper spin recovery procedure is to briskly move the elevator control to the full down position. This is an unnatural control movement, when the nose of the aircraft may already appear to the pilot to be pointing down sharply. This is also a movement not typically advocated by spin training instructors due to associated discomfort.

https://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/misc/3-105960-Cirrussta...

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#142

Post by dmix »

zymhan wrote: post #35
ouid wrote: post #15

"no life threatening injuries", but notably did not walk away from the crash. There's a lot in between those two.

> One occupant was seriously injured, and two of the three occupants received minor injuries. https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20220909-...

That’s a cool website, summary, sources, and accessible data…

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#143

Post by _carbyau_ »

bombcar wrote: post #105
wyager wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Compared to motorcycle, plane is far safer. I looked into the stats before I started flying and iirc this is not the case for private aircraft on a per-hour basis. In fact, private aircraft may have been riskier than motorcycle.

The key is that something like 90% of pilot fatalities can be traced to pilot fault. 60% of motorcyclists becoming organ donors are not the motorcyclists fault.

If choosing a powered outdoor hobby, maybe ride motorcycles offroad then. Trail riding is totally a thing. With electric motorbikes it could be a peaceful day out!

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#144

Post by MerelyMortal »

ramesh31 wrote: post #67
imglorp wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a glider pilot I find this mindset disappointing. Every aviator must have a constantly updating array of "what if" situations and planned responses: "Right now, where's my best landing spot and how would I get lined up for that?" etc. It leads to a chess-like thinking ahead mindset which brings all kinds of benefits. "Whelp I'll just pull the lever if something goes wrong" robs you of that. Automation and chutes a…

> Automation and chutes are fine but we keep seeing incidents where lack of judgement, planning or basic stick and rudder skills were contributory. The same reason modern high performance singles like the TBM are known as “dentist killers”. The profusion of technology that eliminated those stick and rudder skills has led to a lot of inexperienced pilots getting into situations they shouldn’t ever be in.

I've only heard the "dentist killers" phrase used in association with V-tail aircraft.

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#145

Post by nradov »

tialaramex wrote: post #52
hugh-avherald wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's no longer considered a last-resort measure. Cirrus training now says to consider it as a first resort.

Indeed, you need to consider CAPS early because it requires altitude, in a plane with a problem you are presumably losing altitude, maybe rapidly, so it won't be long before you can't use CAPS. By then you need to have either decided to use it, or picked some other course of action so that you don't need it. Unlike the rocket ejector seat in a fighter jet, CAPS cannot save you very close to the ground. The ejector se…

Even zero/zero ejection seats can be outside the safe envelope if the aircraft is at low altitude, and is either inverted or has a negative sink rate.

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#146

Post by hn_user2 »

wyager wrote: post #102
fibonacc wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting point but this chute is seriously making me consider taking flying lessons. Compared to motorcycle, plane is far safer. If an engine fails you can still glide to safety. Failing that deploy this chute. One additional feature safety would be terrain recovery where if it detects you are unconscious, the plane would automatically pull out of the dive or avoid terrain obstacles (like side of a mountain)…

> Compared to motorcycle, plane is far safer. I looked into the stats before I started flying and iirc this is not the case for private aircraft on a per-hour basis. In fact, private aircraft may have been riskier than motorcycle.

Last time I checked overall private flying was about 8 times more dangerous than a car, and right on par with a motorcycle.

~~However, something like 35% of the accidents are running out of fuel, and of the remaining accidents, 35% of those were in poor weather.~~

So if it is a clear day and you remember to put fuel in the airplane it gets you ahead of a motorcycle and not as safe as a car.

It really depends on if you look at just fatal accidents or all accidents.

Edit:

Looking at 2019 it appears 38 of 109 fatal accidents were weather and fuel related.

So if you fill up with gas and fly on a nice day you are definitely still worse than a car and maybe twice as safe as a motorcycle? (statistically speaking of course)

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/air-safety-institut...

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#147

Post by hef19898 »

landemva wrote: post #132
hef19898 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each commercially ised or sold aircraft has to come from a certified Desogn Organisation, has to be built by a certified Production Organisation (in most cases the same company , aerospace legallish Airbus and Boeing have a DO and a PO which arw separate entities as far as authorities are converned), needs an Type Certificate (achieved after successful flight testing and to be redone if there are configuration and de…

Boeing skipped the step "to be redone if there are configuration and design changes" for the 737MAX, and smoothed over the differences with software. FAA was supportive of that rule-bending, and other countries followed along.

Yes and no. They din't skip it, the FAA acceptrd and certified the new design based data Boeing provided. Boeing should have, in my opinion, completely recertified the MAX instead of treating it as just a new 737 variant.

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#148

Post by sbierwagen »

dweekly wrote: post #125
rkagerer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the radio calls one-way, or can it understand directions from the air traffic control tower (e.g. Don't use Runway 6, Runway 8 is clear)? How's that work, voice recognition or teletype or something?

Pretty sure the system doesn't parse ATC audio but as other posters have noted can use machine readable METARs and other data to get a sense for weather and available runways. (Note that the system does NOT parse NOTAMs yet per https://skiesmag.com/features/virtual-co-pilot-garmin-autola... ) Beyond that am guessing that it declares its intentions and hopes ATC can pave a clear path. They are generally exceptionally…

Additional context: there have been major airliner crashes resulting in hundreds of deaths as a result of planes put in holding patterns by ATC that ran out of fuel while waiting to land https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avianca_Flight_052

The fact that airplanes that are low on fuel have absolute emergency priority has occasionally resulted in, uh, incidents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3RUWvRRGLQ

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#149

Post by scrumper »

MerelyMortal wrote: post #144
ramesh31 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Automation and chutes are fine but we keep seeing incidents where lack of judgement, planning or basic stick and rudder skills were contributory. The same reason modern high performance singles like the TBM are known as “dentist killers”. The profusion of technology that eliminated those stick and rudder skills has led to a lot of inexperienced pilots getting into situations they shouldn’t ever be in.

I've only heard the "dentist killers" phrase used in association with V-tail aircraft.

Yeah. When I was learning to fly (early 2000s) I heard “fork-tailed doctor killer” a lot in reference to the Beechcraft Bonanza.

Never dentists though, but maybe that was just my flying club’s biases.

Re: Cirrus Vision Jet Pilot Pulls Chute in Florida

#150

Post by p_l »

lisper wrote: post #13
p_l wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unique to Cirrus, but Cirrus is probably most well known for having made bigger and heavier planes with BRS

> It's not unique to Cirrus Not any more, but Cirrus introduced this technology to general aviation.

Cirrus only made the first in terms of standard type certified aircraft in USA, BRS in ultralight and experimental class were common by then.
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