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It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

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Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#141

Post by thrown_22 »

ninth_ant wrote: post #14
8jy89hui wrote: post #2

Does anyone have any insight into why Microsoft thought this was necessary? Minecraft has been server-moderated for years now and has been wildly successful. I've never heard of any hate groups or even hateful servers (I'm sure they exist, but they don't make the news in a way that would harm Microsoft). Is there some legislation that would make it a liability for Microsoft to not moderate all the chat? This move jus…

You may underestimate how truly horrific some of the online communications are in any non-trivial service. Especially when kids are involved. Having been exposed to some of the stuff going on at other companies communication systems, I have total sympathy for mojang wanting some people off of all their platforms, forever. Most any system is built like this from the ground up, it’s rather surprising it took them this…

> You may underestimate how truly horrific some of the online communications are in any non-trivial service. Especially when kids are involved.

Then parents should take care of their kids.

This is like dropping them off on a random street corner and then complaining someone is fucking in an adjacent alley. The world isn't kid safe and it shouldn't be.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#142

Post by jimbob45 »

bolt7469 wrote: post #117
jimbob45 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no going back though, is there? Once Minecraft is playable over LAN without internet connection, there’s very little to nothing that MS can do to police speech, right? I don’t mean to be dismissive but the censorship is virtually opt-in at this point, no?

The MS controversy is that they implemented a centralized chat signing feature that is not opt-out. Most of the fun Minecraft servers are using a kind of server-side modding, but their users are playing with "vanilla" clients. So if you get banned by MS, you can't join those servers. MS is now the gatekeeper of offensive chat, not the individual servers.

You’re saying the servers are fun and that’s fine. However, I’m of the opinion that it’s the players who make the game fun and if the players choose to play on virtual LAN servers, then they, in essence, opt-out of the censorship.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#144

Post by djbusby »

donatj wrote: post #133
babypuncher wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I found it frustrtating, but I've grown to really appreciate Nintendo's approach to this problem. Their multiplayer games (like Splatoon) have no in-game chat or VOIP. It definitely makes it harder to make friends in the games, but it also completely eliminates any and all potential for toxicity and other miscreant behavior. As a result, I'd have no problem letting my hypothetical children play these games o…

It removes any and all reason to play online. Might as well play bots.

Rocket League has an option called quick-chat. It's only canned messages. And in QC mode you only see or reply QC messages. Make being real toxic difficult.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#145

Post by JetAlone »

verisimilitudes wrote: post #95
lolinder wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any attempt to understand "the users here" as a unit is misguided. Hacker News doesn't have a single opinion on anything. You get a different sub-community showing up for each thread depending on topic and time of day, so the sentiment will always fluctuate from thread to thread.

Quoted post unavailable.

> I remember when the idiots here were congratulating Uber for killing that woman, because her death wouldn't be in vain; it would improve their self-driving software.

We will reach Peak Scientistic Neo-Liberalism on the back of such sacrifices. Progress, profits, enlightenment, efficiency and safety, at any cost.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#146

Post by codeyperson »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #122
ckemere wrote: post #94

It's apparently a minority voice opinion here on HN, but I for one appreciate what Microsoft is trying to do. As a parent of a 6 and 9 year old who have really gotten into Minecraft during COVID, I appreciate them basically deciding "We want Minecraft to be a game for kids and an online community that is nice." I get why people are frustrated, but I also like the idea of a global decision that forces servers open to…

Wow, this is the most entitled attitude I've seen in a long time. You let your kids play online, where they can communicate with basically anyone. So the solution is to grant a central authority total power to ban anyone who doesn't comply with the standards you want for your children. This is the online equivalent of a homophobe complaining that two men holding hands in the park will turn their children gay.

Bit of a wild comparison. It's more like the online equivalent of someone getting kicked out of Legoland for swearing around the children.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#147

Post by lightsandaounds »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #122
ckemere wrote: post #94

It's apparently a minority voice opinion here on HN, but I for one appreciate what Microsoft is trying to do. As a parent of a 6 and 9 year old who have really gotten into Minecraft during COVID, I appreciate them basically deciding "We want Minecraft to be a game for kids and an online community that is nice." I get why people are frustrated, but I also like the idea of a global decision that forces servers open to…

Wow, this is the most entitled attitude I've seen in a long time. You let your kids play online, where they can communicate with basically anyone. So the solution is to grant a central authority total power to ban anyone who doesn't comply with the standards you want for your children. This is the online equivalent of a homophobe complaining that two men holding hands in the park will turn their children gay.

I understand your point, but I would be upset if I took my family to Chuck E Cheese's and there was a table full of adults loudly talking about their raunchy escapades from the night before. I think it is a fair assumption that a child's game will have clean chat.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#148

Post by EMIRELADERO »

caslon wrote: post #135
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google "contract unconscionability". How is buying a copy of software which runs on my own computer different from buying a physical machine that runs on my electricity? If this were using a company's servers, then fine. More power to them. In fact, that's a very fair way to do business. You're stepping in their own backyard and so they get to set the rules of the "house". But when I run the software in my own machin…

Minecraft is transparently not a good. You get a license to it, you don't own it. You don't buy the copy, you buy the license to the copy. You go to the video store, you get a VHS tape. You don't own the media on the tape. You can use the tape. That is the deal for proprietary software. That's what you agreed to with your purchase. You consented to the model. You agreed to the terms of the license. There's nothing mi…

You should check out Andino v. Apple, an ongoing lawsuit in which the plaintiff alledges that the use of the "Buy" button is fraudulent if content is truly not bought.

I feel like you are confusing copyright law with contract law.

I can purchase Minecraft without agreeing to any EULA. It only appears after you download the launcher.

Here are the two types of unconscionability:

The basic test applied for unconscionability is “whether, in light of the general background and the needs of a particular case, the clauses involved are so one-sided as to be unconscionable under the circumstances existing at the time of the making of the contract”.

Substantive unconscionability looks to the actual terms of the

agreement, while procedural unconscionability focuses on the manner

in which the contract was negotiated and the circumstances of the parties at the time of formation. Procedural unconscionability may be shown by either an inequality in bargaining power or unfair surprise. This may be evidenced by terms that are unreasonably favourable to one party, terms hidden in the contract, or where one party has substantially lower education levels. Substantive unconscionability may be shown by an overly harsh allocation of risks or unjustifiable costs or a great price disparity. Where a court finds that a contract or clause is unconscionable at the time it was made, it can refuse to enforce the contract or limit the application of that clause to avoid an unconscionable result.

It is not the EULA that allows me to use the software. The software can be naturally executed and used. The EULA then comes around and coerces me to agree to it if I want to get past an install screen. While the actual software is already in my posession, which is the only thing copyright law regulates. Copying and redistribution.

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#149

Post by ShowalkKama »

ckemere wrote: post #94

It's apparently a minority voice opinion here on HN, but I for one appreciate what Microsoft is trying to do. As a parent of a 6 and 9 year old who have really gotten into Minecraft during COVID, I appreciate them basically deciding "We want Minecraft to be a game for kids and an online community that is nice." I get why people are frustrated, but I also like the idea of a global decision that forces servers open to…

servers I'd consider "kid friendly" already have their own chat moderation so it's a non-issue if you restrict your kids to playing only on those servers (if you don't chat reporting solves nothing since anarchy & co will disable chat signing server side).

Re: It seems that the good times for online Minecraft play are over

#150

Post by Auracle »

djbusby wrote: post #144
donatj wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It removes any and all reason to play online. Might as well play bots.

Rocket League has an option called quick-chat. It's only canned messages. And in QC mode you only see or reply QC messages. Make being real toxic difficult.

What a save!

It’s amazing how from the launch of the game that quick chat has pretty much only been used sarcastically.

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