At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt • Hacker News Board

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#141

Post by ok_dad » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 7:55 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #119

wizofaus wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not clear how that's relevant to the comment you were replying to, unless you're suggesting that being jailed for minor controlled substance offenses is far more common in the US than the many other developed countries with similar laws?

Only 4.5% of US inmates are in prison for drug possession. I do wonder what the rate is for other countries. Shocking that 55% of inmates are in for violent crimes such as murder, rape, and manslaughter. source: https://felonvoting.procon.org/incarcerated-felon-population...

Source, please, that just seems incorrect.

That would mean for 2mm prisoners there would be 1.1mm murderers, rapists, and manslaughterers. That seems like way too large a number to be realistic with the declining rate of murder, rape, and manslaughter.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#142

Post by DisjointedHunt » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 7:56 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #125

DisjointedHunt wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swap “drugs” for “guns” and you’d have the majority of HN flip out. The Government isn’t a magical entity of absolute perfection. Large classes of banned substances are indeed banned for good reason. Their effects on individual/societal well being documented quite heavily. Two things can be true at the same time: 1. Some substances that are detrimental to human health need to be controlled. 2. The US government and i…

Using a gun often has a victim. A seriously injured or dead victim. Getting high does not. That difference cannot be overstated.

What? Lol.

Let’s pull the stats on stabbing or blunt force trauma and ban baseball knives, kitchen knives and nail clippers as well ?

Terrorists ran people over with vehicles. So of course, renting a Uhaul van now has to come with a lengthy background check?

The absurdity of the comparison astounds me, and I’m willing to bet, would certainly astonish you were you to step outside the bubble you seem to be in. Have you met anyone that’s known or was a user of synthetics? Read up on the opioid crisis and the societal impact that’s had. It’s a crying shame that it isn’t taught in schools or spoken about even more than it is at present.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#143

Post by throwaway0a5e » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 7:56 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #125

DisjointedHunt wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swap “drugs” for “guns” and you’d have the majority of HN flip out. The Government isn’t a magical entity of absolute perfection. Large classes of banned substances are indeed banned for good reason. Their effects on individual/societal well being documented quite heavily. Two things can be true at the same time: 1. Some substances that are detrimental to human health need to be controlled. 2. The US government and i…

Using a gun often has a victim. A seriously injured or dead victim. Getting high does not. That difference cannot be overstated.

With fentanyl being so potent these days and most guns never winding up killing anybody I wouldn't be surprised if the body count per "retail transaction" wasn't on the same order.

This isn't your 70s hippie weed or 80s crack. Dealing in hard drugs these days is a business with a pretty high body count due to the low LD50 of the substances involved. It's like the addictive substances equivalent of giving dynamite to teenagers. A lot of fun will be had but a lot of bad outcomes too.

So yeah, I'd say that dealing often has a victim too.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#144

Post by michaelmrose » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 7:56 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #103

arcticbull wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least for that there's a pretty simple non-nefarious explanation. The state wants to outsource their prisons/jails to some private entity. They agree to pay the private entity per prisoner housed. That sounds pretty nefarious to me because the state has a duty of care for its citizens - of which this is a clear and flagrant abdication. > I haven't seen the actual minimum occupancy clauses, but realistically spea…

>That sounds pretty nefarious to me because the state has a duty of care for its citizens - of which this is a clear and flagrant abdication. Which part of it constitutes "a clear and flagrant abdication"? >At the end of the day this is the same thing - the state should be paying less when there's less crime. It should be incentivized to stop crime from happening in the first place. >It should be spending that money…

It's simpler just to make the privately run prisons illegal so as to avoid any moral hazards.

If the facility is under utilized less investment will be needed in the future and conditions can be improved for existing inmates.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#145

Post by standardUser » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 7:57 PM UTC

rileymat2 wrote: post #134

akudha wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murder happens despite being illegal, and will continue to I don’t understand how you can compare murder with drug use (or even selling drugs). Nobody says “let me try murder today and see if I like it” but plenty of people say (and do) “let me try drugs for fun today and see if I like it”. Not all illegal activities are the same.

It is a response to: > The government strains, at extraordinary expense, to pretend they can stop drugs from being made, bought and sold, but they can't. My point is that whether or not something still happens once illegal does not have much bearing on whether it should remain so. Nor does it signal failure of the policy as long as there is reduction. Because marijuana being illegal did reduce the production, and con…

Did it? You're relying on surveys on people self-reporting illegal activity and comparing it to post-legalization data. There is a lot to think about in regards to these issues and I suggest you maybe read up on it some more if you are interested.

In the meantime, before legalization, weed only become stronger and more readily available. Many teenagers could get it more easily than booze. That was with the government at all levels doing everything it could to stop marijuana use. With many ruined lives of otherwise free people coming with those polices.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#146

Post by voisin » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 7:57 PM UTC

MichaelCollins wrote: post #67

yeeyeeyee wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Supporters say the collections are a legitimate way for states to recoup millions of taxpayer dollars spent on prisons and jails. Wait there are supporters of this? You're telling me if I asked 100 people on the street, there'd be someone that said "oh yeah this is a pretty fair and reasonable law to charge the inmates 5-star hotel prices"??

> You're telling me if I asked 100 people on the street, Confronting people on the street with questions like this won't give you a representative sample of what people really think. The sort of people who support the system to maintain their class/lifestyle are likely to ignore your question or to perceive your activist intent and lie to you to avoid getting sucker punched by the 'crazy person on the street.'

I think the poster was making the point of doing a survey. Perhaps not set on the actual method of that survey.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#147

Post by culi » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 7:58 PM UTC

breitling wrote: post #6

>All but two states have so-called “pay-to-stay” laws that make prisoners pay for their time behind bars What? Had no idea about this whatsoever and I consider myself a well-read person. Damn.

This seems a common theme in the US. In 2018, there was a nation-wide prison strike across all states in the US. The largest prison strike in world history basically. Many prisoners died or were injured.

I remember checking NYTimes and CNN's frontpages and being shocked to see nothing written about it. The strike lasted nearly a month

Really wild to think about how this could've gone down in history books for immense historical significance if we just... paid any attention at all. Instead hardly anyone knows about it

Similarly there's an immigrant detention center near where I live in California. The detainees recently went on strike. They have to work to earn money in order to buy food. The work is "volunteer" so they can get away with paying them $1 for a full day's work. A bag of beans costs $3 and a 15-minute phone call is $2.50. So a full week of work gets you a phone call and some beans. The prison guards use intimidation tactics like "the judge won't like hearing about your bad behavior when your case is up" to keep them from organizing. Lots have gotten sick from the black mold growing in their cells too. It's straight up modern slavery and the only media source I've seen even mention it is LaborNotes[0]

[0] https://www.labornotes.org/2022/08/immigrant-detainees-strik...

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#148

Post by tmpz22 » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 7:58 PM UTC

Akronymus wrote: post #109

xfitm3 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal is an excellent role model, there are numerous studies on their approach to drugs[0]. While I am not an expert on the subject the model is morally appealing to me, and I believe public order is maintained. Begin researching on your own if you're interested in this subject. I feel for anyone who loves a drug user. Separately I just learned fentanyl test strips are not legal in all 50 states. Given that fentan…

Quoted post unavailable.

> IMO it at least contributed to some of the worst riots in recent history.

What an absurd thing to say. Even a cursory Google search proves this to be utterly false.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#149

Post by arbuge » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 7:59 PM UTC

> Former Connecticut inmate Fred Hodges, who served more than 17 years in prison for killing a man while trying to retrieve his son’s stolen bicycle, came into $21,000 after his car was totaled in a 2009 traffic accident. The state claimed half of that, he said. After paying his lawyer, he was left with about $3,000.

That's not coming into money. His $21k was compensation for the vehicle he no longer has. He was more liquid for some time but not in any way richer. It's grossly unfair for the state to interpret that money as something they could go after, even if such pay-to-stay laws were fair (which I don't think they are). What replacement vehicle is he going to get with $3k now?

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#150

Post by prox » Sat, Aug 27, 2022, 7:59 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #22

former inmate here. I remember having to discharge nearly 30 grand in bankruptcy my second day out of the klink because I couldnt honest to god afford anything. I'd moved back in with an old roommate and was going to trade tech school. other things that cost money include: soap, toilet paper, toothpaste, and basic analgesics like aspirin. phone calls are around $9 a minute. a letter is around $4. if you had an accide…

How do people even pay that back? It sounds as if one most be incredibly lucky to get back on the rails? What happens if you don’t pay?