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Apple is building an ad empire as its iPhone privacy crackdown weakens rivals

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Re: Apple is building an ad empire as its iPhone privacy crackdown weakens rivals

#141

Post by [deleted] »

doublepg23 wrote: post #59
mumblemumble wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that the argument is that, on Android, you always have the option of rooting your phone or installing an alternative OS. So Google is a bit more limited than Apple is in how hard they can clamp down. Personally, I don't know that that's true. It may be easier for Apple to do it because the ecosystem is more vertically integrated. But that's a coordination problem, not a technical one. I don't think ther…

Always? I was under the impression it’s taking a lot longer for phones to get rooted.

[deleted]

Re: Apple is building an ad empire as its iPhone privacy crackdown weakens rivals

#142

Post by stjohnswarts »

I don't care if the rivals fold and close up shop lol. Also I don't have to stick with apple if they start shoving ads at me constantly. To be honest I -could- get by with a flip phone or just using my iphone as such and turning off data. I consider most of the trappings of iphones as niceties and not necessities. All I really need is to check my email, sms, and receive calls. Most times I have a laptop with me to do the rest.

Re: Apple is building an ad empire as its iPhone privacy crackdown weakens rivals

#143

Post by stjohnswarts »

tsunamifury wrote: post #71
SaltyBackendGuy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whereas Apple primarily makes money from selling devices I wonder if Apple is predicting that this wont be the case for much longer (lack of real innovation (excluding the M1) and market saturation), so they're being proactive to dominate another vertical. They will likely capitalize on their current image of being privacy kings.

It’s been explicitly stated many times. It’s why Ive left. They are a “services” company now.

I haven't left yet but it's looking bad. They are nearly out of room to grab more market share, and can't continue growing that way, so one of the few ones left to expand is ad revenue or to purchase other companies, and Apple doesn't really seem big on polluting their brand "Apple" with "lesser" companies.

Re: Apple is building an ad empire as its iPhone privacy crackdown weakens rivals

#144

Post by stjohnswarts »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #32
Havoc wrote: post #30

Sounds like they're copying google with their desire to get rid of cookies / FLOC etc. Strong privacy stance on privacy for others (and in media)...but very quiet on 1st party inhouse ability to connect the dots. I have a hard time seeing how this doesn't end in anti-trust tears for both of them

At least Android can't stop you from installing ad blockers.

I mean they could by locking down the platform more like Apple does...

Re: Apple is building an ad empire as its iPhone privacy crackdown weakens rivals

#145

Post by stjohnswarts »

pixl97 wrote: post #58
TakeBlaster16 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the first sentence I thought this was parody, but after reading the rest I guess you're being genuine. Why is selling billions of thousand-dollar devices not enough? Can't they be satisfied with a successful business selling hardware at high markups to repeat customers? Why do they also need to expand into ads and destroy their hard-won reputation of being a premium brand, to milk those few extra cents per user…

Do markets not demand continual growth forever? New phones are no longer a growth market. Everyone has one, and buying a $1200 phone every year is something less and less people are doing. If Apple totally trashes their reputation, who are they going to flock to... Google? That is just jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

"Do markets not..." That's not my problem. Apple can't get busted up for all I care. I don't really have a whole lot of sympathy for one of the largest corporations in the world.

Re: Apple is building an ad empire as its iPhone privacy crackdown weakens rivals

#147

Post by tinus_hn »

jefftk wrote: post #133
tinus_hn wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need to invade privacy to show ads in a search result, based on that search. That’s how DuckDuckGo survives. We’ve all heard the anti trust whining about the App Store for over a decade now. It’s not happening. Nintendo gets to decide what you put on a Nintendo Switch, Apple gets to decide what you put on an iPhone. That’s not monopoly abuse, if you don’t like it buy different console or an Android phone. P…

> You don’t need to invade privacy to show ads in a search result, based on that search. That’s how DuckDuckGo survives. DDG does track how you interact with their search results and search ads, same as Google.

DDG does not set a cookie that identifies you and as such has absolutely no way to have your ads or anything else be influenced by what you searched for earlier or what results you clicked on, outside of the single page you get when you search.

Check it for yourself using your favorite browsers developer console, there are no cookies, unless you set preferences and if so, the cookie is a very short string that indicates your preferences and is obvious not usable as a user id.

What they do is log what is searched for and what results and ads are clicked and that is not tied to you. Because they don’t have a concept of ‘you’, only of that one search.

And that is definitely not ‘same as Google’, Google automatically sets a user identifying cookie once you open the homepage, tries all kinds of tricks to tie this user id to your Google account and tracks anything you do to that account and remembers it forever. That’s why you only need to search for a car once to get ads for cars for weeks. Even if you clear your cookies. That’s Google tracking you. DuckDuckGo does not do that.

And it is really unfair to just accuse them of being ‘same as Google’. They are not same as Google, obviously they are not perfect but they do make the sacrifices while still making it work without tracking everything you do.

Re: Apple is building an ad empire as its iPhone privacy crackdown weakens rivals

#148

Post by FredPret »

imwillofficial wrote: post #95
tsunamifury wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been explicitly stated many times. It’s why Ive left. They are a “services” company now.

It wasn’t been explicitly stated anywhere by anyone who matters

Read their financial reporting, they jump through hoops to show service revenue to their owners

Re: Apple is building an ad empire as its iPhone privacy crackdown weakens rivals

#149

Post by arrosenberg »

tinus_hn wrote: post #123
arrosenberg wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not “obviously” monopoly abuse by virtue of the fact that the antitrust laws have not been updated to account for modern markets and technologies. Beyond that, its not hard to distinguish between Nintendo, a company that makes consoles and video games (and has several larger competitors); and Apple, a vertically integrated empire who controls a big chunk of the global communication and entertainment markets and d…

Apple controls slightly less than 20% of the global smartphone market and has been bypassed by Samsung in market share. It’s just ridiculous to claim they do not have significant competition, they have less than 20% while that other over 80% is all Android. Even in their biggest market, the US, they barely pass 50% and the rest is all one very successful competitor. Pretty significant competition.

The global smartphone market is irrelevant, since the majority of global non-Apple purchases are cheap, one-time hardware purchases with low margin and no long tail revenue. Apple absolutely dominates the market in revenue (~65%) generated on those devices (which is recurring and high margin). They control the only roads that matter, and they only have 1 real competitor in Android. That's not a competitive market by any metric I am aware of.

Additionally, they have and continue to enforce regulatory authority on their platforms, which is the role of government, not a private company. It's anticompetitive for a massive private enterprise like Apple (or Google) to arbitrarily use its' distribution platform to control the economic fortunes of the companies built on that platform.

Re: Apple is building an ad empire as its iPhone privacy crackdown weakens rivals

#150

Post by mark_l_watson »

pixl97 wrote: post #58
TakeBlaster16 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the first sentence I thought this was parody, but after reading the rest I guess you're being genuine. Why is selling billions of thousand-dollar devices not enough? Can't they be satisfied with a successful business selling hardware at high markups to repeat customers? Why do they also need to expand into ads and destroy their hard-won reputation of being a premium brand, to milk those few extra cents per user…

Do markets not demand continual growth forever? New phones are no longer a growth market. Everyone has one, and buying a $1200 phone every year is something less and less people are doing. If Apple totally trashes their reputation, who are they going to flock to... Google? That is just jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

I don’t disagree with you, but markets also get saturated. I have an old iPhone 11 Pro and I just bought my wife an iPhone 13 Pro. I could by a new phone for myself, but nothing that I see is worth my time of going to the store, setting up a new phone, etc. Piling on: buying new gear unnecessarily often is also really bad for the environment. If Apple wants to continue to thrive, I think they need alternative income streams.

You mentioned Google. I think they are also working hard to find additional income streams. Google has good products in GCP as well as entertainment media like YouTube, YouTube Music, Play books/movies. But they are still too reliant in advertising.

I think Apple will do better than Google in branching out, but to be honest I enjoy both companies products while taking full advantage of Google’s privacy settings, Apple’s Lockdown Mode, etc. if people use Google with default settings, well, that is their decision.

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