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Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

science.org

141–150 of 239 posts

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a carrier. It introduces whatever is in it to your bloodstream.

During my masters i used DMSO as a carrier for various lab experiments. The general consensus was to avoid skin contact with it.

There are pharmaceutical preparations that use it to carry across the skin.

Was thought for a while to have anti-inflammatory effects itself.

Ethanol works as an absorption enhancer too.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#142
post #27
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched to stainless steel, it is more to maintain, but it's not horrible. I also use a ceramic pan on very low temperatures to cook really stick stuff like scrambled eggs.

The majority of things labeled ceramic are teflon on top.

Definitely a possibility, the other alternative is to not scramble eggs

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#144
post #142
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of things labeled ceramic are teflon on top.

Definitely a possibility, the other alternative is to not scramble eggs

I cook scrambled eggs in cast iron a few times a week without issue.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#145
post #38

The paper: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm8868 The "soap and solvent" is sodium hydroxide (lye) and DMSO at 120 degC. Those are... fairly... well behaved chemicals, but lye is stout stuff and DMSO attacks nitrile gloves. You could imagine a remediation process that uses this process but the combo ain't exactly Dawn dish soap. I'd almost prefer pyroprocessing over it.

We just need to boil the world's oceans now

You joke, but PFOS doesn't start to decompose until it's north of 400°C https://pubs.acs.org/doi/suppl/10.1021/acs.iecr.1c01504/supp...

At ppt concentrations in seawater, it doesn't seem worth it. PFOS remediation is for contaminated soil or industrial wastewater.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#146
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have recommendations for seasoning them without a thermostat or a suitable thermometer? I successfully burned my new cast-iron skillet clean, but even after four thin coats of poppyseed and flaxseed oil, each heated up for an hour or so to a temperature that chars garlic skin after a few minutes, eggs still stick if I try to cook them on it without oil. (I'm a fan of teflon but I like cast iron even more.)

Do people cook eggs without oil? Do you use butter or something?

You can definitely fry eggs on teflon without butter or oil or anything. I have this vague memory that I used to be able to do this on cast iron when I lived in the US, with maybe the occasional bit sticking.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#147
post #139
post #86

Headline is a lie: as we finally find out halfway through the article, it's not soap but lye, sodium hydroxide. The solvent is the fairly nontoxic dimethyl sulfoxide, so both of these are safe to release into the environment. In https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32515659 sbierwagen reports that the reaction requires 120-degree temperatures so this isn't suitable for in-situ remediation.

The reaction doesn't "require" 120C, that was simply the first experiment they described. They began by confirming that this reaction actually takes place and discovering which PFAs were neutralized by it. To that end they boiled a mixture of the stuff for 24 hours. The reaction can occur at more moderate temperatures. There is more analysis (with experimental results) further down in the paper: > Substantial defluor…

Okay, but you can't, for example, heat up large masses of contaminated dirt to 40° without killing everything in them. And you probably can't even saturate them with DMSO, both because even though it's relatively nontoxic it's not that nontoxic, and because it's expensive.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#148
post #91
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing beats cast iron. They aren't hard to take care of.(In spite of the rhetoric.) Actually easier, once you get a good surface on them. Pots, frying pans, woks, etc. They work very well. The most important thing is to give them time to heat up. Once they are, they hold the heat very well, so can cook at any temperature.

Do you have recommendations for seasoning them without a thermostat or a suitable thermometer? I successfully burned my new cast-iron skillet clean, but even after four thin coats of poppyseed and flaxseed oil, each heated up for an hour or so to a temperature that chars garlic skin after a few minutes, eggs still stick if I try to cook them on it without oil. (I'm a fan of teflon but I like cast iron even more.)

I tried many different methods and nothing really worked, then I finally came across this:

- heat it up so it's warm in the oven

- coat it generously with vegetable oil (it's what I had, but basically any oil will do)

- wipe the excess with a paper towel so it's still shiny but not runny

- put it in the oven for an hour just above the smoke point of the oil

(I'm not really a fan of cast iron, as they are too heavy for my liking and have too much thermal mass to react quickly to temperature changes)

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#149
post #22

The paper: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm8868 The "soap and solvent" is sodium hydroxide (lye) and DMSO at 120 degC. Those are... fairly... well behaved chemicals, but lye is stout stuff and DMSO attacks nitrile gloves. You could imagine a remediation process that uses this process but the combo ain't exactly Dawn dish soap. I'd almost prefer pyroprocessing over it.

DMSO is not well-behaved. It easily penetrates human skin, and carries solutes with it. Don't touch! "DMSO can cause contaminants, toxins, and medicines to be absorbed through the skin, which may cause unexpected effects. "Because DMSO easily penetrates the skin, substances dissolved in DMSO may be quickly absorbed. Glove selection is important when working with DMSO. Butyl rubber, fluoroelastomer, neoprene, or thick…

I think they meant well behaved in the sense that it isn't highly reactive - e.g. doesn't explode in contact with air. Not so much what it does to humans.

We're talking about fluorine chemistry here, so things get kind of extreme.

Re: Simple mix of soap and solvent could help destroy ‘forever chemicals’

#150
post #38

The paper: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm8868 The "soap and solvent" is sodium hydroxide (lye) and DMSO at 120 degC. Those are... fairly... well behaved chemicals, but lye is stout stuff and DMSO attacks nitrile gloves. You could imagine a remediation process that uses this process but the combo ain't exactly Dawn dish soap. I'd almost prefer pyroprocessing over it.

We just need to boil the world's oceans now

I think it’d be more efficient to simply pump the ocean out of the environment.
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