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Linux 5.19

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Re: Linux 5.19

#141

Post by GlitchMr »

ztrww wrote: post #109
rowanG077 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia is actively hostile. Apple is slightly willing to get Linux to work. It's not comperable.

Apple provides no documentation or any other resources. Nvidia at least provides their closed source drivers and has put in some effort in open sourcing some parts of them. Obviously Nvidia is not great but it is still much, much better than Apple which just totally ignores Linux and there is no guarantee some exec might decide that they need to patch the ‘security holes’ which allow Linux to even run on m1 at some p…

I think Apple would have to be stupid to block booting other operating systems on the devices they already have sold. This could easily lead to lawsuit, similar to one that Sony had when they removed OtherOS functionality from PlayStation 3.

Re: Linux 5.19

#142

Post by rowanG077 »

ztrww wrote: post #109
rowanG077 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia is actively hostile. Apple is slightly willing to get Linux to work. It's not comperable.

Apple provides no documentation or any other resources. Nvidia at least provides their closed source drivers and has put in some effort in open sourcing some parts of them. Obviously Nvidia is not great but it is still much, much better than Apple which just totally ignores Linux and there is no guarantee some exec might decide that they need to patch the ‘security holes’ which allow Linux to even run on m1 at some p…

Apple actively helped Asahi Linux by changing the boot process. NVidia actively works against Linux by using things like the GPL condom. Nvidia is like that kid that is forced by a teacher to do something and then proceeds to do it in the most shitheaded way but just enough for it to work while actively working against the spirit of the request of the teacher.

Apple in contrast has helped Asahi Linux for literally no reason. It wasn't requiest, it wasn't even required. It just made life easier for Asahi Linux.

Re: Linux 5.19

#143

Post by petepete »

RL_Quine wrote: post #76
vbernat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a regular Lenovo laptop, everything likely works out of the box with an upstream kernel. This quite not the case yet with Asahi Linux which does not support power management, no USB, no sound. There was a time where Apple laptops came with very good Linux support. It was the time were every bit of hardware support was present in Darwin (a 12" iBook G3 was working flawlessly with Linux for example). I thin…

Nonsense. The 10th gen X1 Carbon has basically nothing functional unless you are running master kernel, and even then it's not completely there. It's just an unusable paperweight at the moment, the OLED screen is pretty though.

I have a 7th gen X1 Carbon and everything, including the fingerprint reader, worked out of the box with Fedora.

Re: Linux 5.19

#144

Post by protonbob »

avar wrote: post #68
vbernat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a regular Lenovo laptop, everything likely works out of the box with an upstream kernel. This quite not the case yet with Asahi Linux which does not support power management, no USB, no sound. There was a time where Apple laptops came with very good Linux support. It was the time were every bit of hardware support was present in Darwin (a 12" iBook G3 was working flawlessly with Linux for example). I thin…

I used an iBook G3/G4 for years as a primary development laptop running Linux, and I think your recollection here is a bit off. The state of it was that: - There were numerous laptops with near-full Linux support, the Apple hardware wasn't categorically better when it came to that. - The power usage of x86 CPUs was atrocious at the time compared to PPC. Now history is repeating with Apple's M[12] line. Therefore peop…

This is such a trip down memory lane. The iBook G4 was a bit of a pain to set up with ubuntu, but once you got it going it was pretty fool proof. I think I ran a machine on it until 12.04 where they stopped supporting PPC officially.

Re: Linux 5.19

#145

Post by Gracana »

hnlmorg wrote: post #131
vocram wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Text navigation works in the same way on Linux/mac using readline key bindings.

Not sure what you're implying here. CLI applications? Because they'd obviously behave the same. The issues I've noticed are around desktop applications. For example if I select some text in KWrite (KDE's "Notepad") by using SHIFT+CTRL+LEFT_ARROW then it will select the word. If I do the equivalent in Notes (macOS) it will select the whole line, not just the word (I tested this just now too). This platform specific be…

Text entry fields in mac programs accept emacs mode ctrl combos. c-a, e, u etc.

Re: Linux 5.19

#146

Post by xtracto »

whalesalad wrote: post #133
vbernat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a regular Lenovo laptop, everything likely works out of the box with an upstream kernel. This quite not the case yet with Asahi Linux which does not support power management, no USB, no sound. There was a time where Apple laptops came with very good Linux support. It was the time were every bit of hardware support was present in Darwin (a 12" iBook G3 was working flawlessly with Linux for example). I thin…

I just wish other laptop hardware was on par with Apple. One can’t deny their attention to detail, fit and finish.

I just bought a Thinkpad because my home's other Windows machine died. The laptop is ok in general , and I love the mate screen, but the black plastic body is just horrible. It feels as if it's going to break just by opening the screen. Does apple have some kind of patent for the aluminium body?

Re: Linux 5.19

#147

Post by bombcar »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #140
amelius wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if Apple provided a better GPU driver, as a non-free kernel blob?

I have literally no idea – but since it hasn't happened and isn't likely to happen… who cares?

We can guess - the blob wouldn't be in the kernel, and the interface to the blob would reluctantly be added (or not added at all) and the installer would work against particular kernels.

Re: Linux 5.19

#148

Post by bombcar »

mattl wrote: post #114
ztrww wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple provides no documentation or any other resources. Nvidia at least provides their closed source drivers and has put in some effort in open sourcing some parts of them. Obviously Nvidia is not great but it is still much, much better than Apple which just totally ignores Linux and there is no guarantee some exec might decide that they need to patch the ‘security holes’ which allow Linux to even run on m1 at some p…

I believe Apple has been making changes to actively support the Asahi community in regards to bootloaders and such.

They have, though it's not clear if it's "engineer at Apple realizes with one small change they can make it easier for Linux" or "internally Apple is fine with supporting Linux on their hardware but they're not openly doing so".

I'm actually moderately surprised they are not actively helping, as often having a second OS option allows for various fun legal tricks when importing, bidding on government contracts, etc.

Re: Linux 5.19

#149

Post by hnlmorg »

Gracana wrote: post #145
hnlmorg wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you're implying here. CLI applications? Because they'd obviously behave the same. The issues I've noticed are around desktop applications. For example if I select some text in KWrite (KDE's "Notepad") by using SHIFT+CTRL+LEFT_ARROW then it will select the word. If I do the equivalent in Notes (macOS) it will select the whole line, not just the word (I tested this just now too). This platform specific be…

Text entry fields in mac programs accept emacs mode ctrl combos. c-a, e, u etc.

I just tried that in 3 different applications: Finder (search bar), Notes, and Slack (just in case it was an Electron specific behaviour). I couldn't get those readline/emacs bindings to work on either. This is a brand new MacBook Pro with all the defaults for the UK region so it's definitely not something I've (knowingly) disabled.

Is this something that needs to be enabled? Or is it dependant on something else to work? It's definitely a feature I'd welcome.

Re: Linux 5.19

#150

Post by capableweb »

rowanG077 wrote: post #142
ztrww wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple provides no documentation or any other resources. Nvidia at least provides their closed source drivers and has put in some effort in open sourcing some parts of them. Obviously Nvidia is not great but it is still much, much better than Apple which just totally ignores Linux and there is no guarantee some exec might decide that they need to patch the ‘security holes’ which allow Linux to even run on m1 at some p…

Apple actively helped Asahi Linux by changing the boot process. NVidia actively works against Linux by using things like the GPL condom. Nvidia is like that kid that is forced by a teacher to do something and then proceeds to do it in the most shitheaded way but just enough for it to work while actively working against the spirit of the request of the teacher. Apple in contrast has helped Asahi Linux for literally no…

Apple helped Asahi allegedly. There is no explicit support of Asahi from Apple, just to be 100% clear.

The change you're talking about is likely to have been for Asahi, but no statement from Apple so far about it.

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