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Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
141–150 of 311 posts
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#142How to approach loss of consciousness is one of the problems I have with non-materialist theories of consciousness like dualism and panpsychism. If consciousness is not generated by my physical brain, how come physical chemicals can manipulate my conscious state? If the brain is a receiver for consciousness, surely my consciousness should exist independently of my brain? Interfering with a radio doesn’t change what’s…
The radio-receiver metaphor doesn't go far enough as it still assumes a somewhat physical brain, but it helps at first untangeling yourself from materialism. If reality is nothing but a dream it would be no problem to dream up a brain that modulates the dream-content if it is manipulated. - Taking red paint and spraying it over your wall will modulate the dream in such that the wall appears red. - Taking a hammer and…
I think it's fair to say we do know that we have a somewhat physical brain. Even if it's part of a dream then our definition of "physical" would be scoped to that dream and still be accurate
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#143RadioLab did an episode on this topic “Decoding the Void” in 2014 ( https://www.radiolab.org/episodes/anesthesia ) that, for me, pretty much deconstructed the whole idea of an afterlife in 20 minutes. What happens when we die? People commonly think of this as some kind of unknowable mystery. But people lose consciousness all the time and aren't entering the spirit world when they do so. If you’ve ever awoken from gen…
While the rational side of me thinks that death is probably oblivion, I just don't want to admit it. After a friend of mine passed away, I did a lot of soul searching and basically came to the conclusion that there's nothing after death. It was mentally destructive for me and sent me into a bout of depression. I'd hate to think that we're going through all this just to have your entire life multiplied by 0 at the end…
Some would argue the exact opposite - that the ephemeral nature of existence makes being alive that much more special. That our finite existence here is a gift to treasure and enjoy and not just something you tolerate while you wait for the "real thing"(eternal existence in heaven or whatever)
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#144https://www.templeton.org/grant/nautilus-magazine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Templeton_Foundation Just a friendly reminder.
What are you trying to communicate?
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
If qualia are not remembered, do they make a sound?
Consciousness trying to make up reasons why consciousness can survive death. That's what religion is all about.
How about unconsciousness trying to make up reasons for consciousness? I see it in the comments, and it even looks like a religious belief.
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Occam's razor = the theory with the fewest parameters should be preferred, or often interpreted as the simplest theory. Do you think that humans universally or even have historically interpreted physicalism as a simpler theory than a non-materialist one? I don't think so I think you speak from an already materialist perspective, in that you accept the physical world as something that really exists out there, and that…
When some physicalists talk about consciousness being an illusion, they're generally talking about the experience of being the centre of reality, they don't mean we don't have these experiences. They're addressing the fact that the brain isn't always conscious, that consciousness seems to go away completely in some situations, so for them it's not a permanent aspect of ourselves. That's all. I prefer not to use the '…
I think consciousness is the more fundamental thing, because it’s the only thing I ever have experience of, and that everything else arises from that (including the physical world). To me that’s the simplest explanation
Taking a step further, I think neither consciousness nor physical reality really exists, it’s all emptiness (see Heart sutra)
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#147How to approach loss of consciousness is one of the problems I have with non-materialist theories of consciousness like dualism and panpsychism. If consciousness is not generated by my physical brain, how come physical chemicals can manipulate my conscious state? If the brain is a receiver for consciousness, surely my consciousness should exist independently of my brain? Interfering with a radio doesn’t change what’s…
Pick 3 random stones and arrange them so that they form a straight line. Does the line "exist"? If you consider that only the atoms "count" for existing, then the line does not exist. (Neither do the stones, by the way - since they are constantly exchanging minor quantities of atoms and electrons with the rest of the environment, the set that defines what each stone is is constantly changing. But let's ignore that bi…
You are conflating abstract reasoning with consciousness. Your invisible line has no effect on the substrate, because the line does not exists. Consciousness effects the mind/brain/body complex.
The lines you describe are placed by your intuition. Most math is intuitive as such, and exists outside of mind, which is why anybody can "discover" axioms, ratios, etc.
If your notion was correct, only a perfect atomic ordering inside the brain would create a precise and useful thought, such as how to find the ratio of radius to diameter.
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#148RadioLab did an episode on this topic “Decoding the Void” in 2014 ( https://www.radiolab.org/episodes/anesthesia ) that, for me, pretty much deconstructed the whole idea of an afterlife in 20 minutes. What happens when we die? People commonly think of this as some kind of unknowable mystery. But people lose consciousness all the time and aren't entering the spirit world when they do so. If you’ve ever awoken from gen…
While the rational side of me thinks that death is probably oblivion, I just don't want to admit it. After a friend of mine passed away, I did a lot of soul searching and basically came to the conclusion that there's nothing after death. It was mentally destructive for me and sent me into a bout of depression. I'd hate to think that we're going through all this just to have your entire life multiplied by 0 at the end…
You might enjoy reading The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus. It changed my opinion on almost exactly this topic.
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Occam's razor = the theory with the fewest parameters should be preferred, or often interpreted as the simplest theory. Do you think that humans universally or even have historically interpreted physicalism as a simpler theory than a non-materialist one? I don't think so I think you speak from an already materialist perspective, in that you accept the physical world as something that really exists out there, and that…
>Do you think that humans universally or even have historically interpreted physicalism as a simpler theory than a non-materialist one? To be fair with humans, the simpler theory is almost always "my neighbour is a witch, she did it" Hand waving complexity as that thing you feel in your gut instead of having some proper definition for it was and still is the standard human experience
> To be fair with humans, the simpler theory is almost always "my neighbour is a witch, she did it"
Then why appeal to Occam’s razor?
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#150A tiny subset of patients (about 1 or 2 in 1,000, although estimates vary) have reported “accidental awareness,” That's just what I wanted to read having my first ever surgery planned for next week, another thing to be afraid of happening!
If it helps -- it's still quite rare, and orders of magnitude less likely that you'd feel or remember anything other than a general haziness after three days. They put a whole cocktail of drugs in you so there's more overlap and less likely for one failure point.
Yes there can be things that go wrong, but that's true with daily life (car crash, etc). You're far more likely to get hit with a case of comparatively mild post-op nausea as any kind of complication, and there's so many more ways to immediately fix that painlessly than even 20 years ago. You should be able to talk to your doc and anesthesiologist in the preparation process 30 minutes before if there's any private questions, concerns, or fears.
Best of luck, and I hope for your swift recovery. Happy to answer any questions if there's any about the process. (Have had ~17 surgeries, some for life threatening issues, and one last week for complicated eye stuff so it's fairly fresh. Just wanted to send words of encouragement.)