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Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

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Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#141

Post by anonymoushn »

majormajor wrote: post #105
jt2190 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people really do have to pivot up through some more average jobs first before landing the Big Tech jobs with huge paychecks. But the assertion here is that too many “pivoting up” jobs are a negative indicator. (An “upper class” programmer wouldn’t spend time in the “lower” classes.) Not saying I agree or disagree with this, but the existence of a class system in tech jobs is the OP’s central point. Edit: The O…

As advice for hiring managers this twitter thread is very actionable: stop judging people harshly for working their way up. As advice for candidates who want to work at TrendyCo outside of what's itself a very elite "class" of people he anecdotally knows, it's not very useful: "try for that exciting job you want, and if you can't get it then, sure, take any job." Here's the problem with that advice: the class system…

Colleges are less impactful for trendy tech companies than they are for finance or whatever. I went to a no-name state school and could get into these things. If you really did an internship programming at Walgreens, it's easy enough to omit it from your resume.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#142

Post by barry-cotter »

kragen wrote: post #130
orzig wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company gets an absolute a glut of applicants who did a Boot Camp or even Masters program into science, and rejects most before interviewing. We’re not Google either, in pay or prestige. So I’ll strongly object to your characterization based on extensive anecdotal evidence.

What do you mean by "even Masters program into science"?

A Master’s degree in CS, like a bootcamp, is a negative signal about an applicant.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#143

Post by haliskerbas »

barry-cotter wrote: post #142
kragen wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "even Masters program into science"?

A Master’s degree in CS, like a bootcamp, is a negative signal about an applicant.

Why? I did an engineering undergrad and MSCS part time so I could take some fun classes I wished to take in undergrad. What’s the negative signal in general?

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#145

Post by germinalphrase »

natpalmer1776 wrote: post #128
germinalphrase wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transitioning out of a career in HS education and seeking a path in PM. Looking for useful prep references and remote referrals if anyone is willing to extend a hand.

Every PM I have met pivoted from a technical or front line role. External hires for PMs without direct prior experience are probably lottery-esque happenings.

I expect you’re meaning product management here rather than project management, yes?

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#147

Post by EdwardDiego »

jt2190 wrote: post #99
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

I generally enjoy Dan Luu’s advice, but IMO it’s best approached with the understanding that his professional and social network is somewhat of a bubble that doesn’t reflect the average person. Specifically, he cites a statistic that 50% of the people with “no experience” he knows are getting ML and other such jobs at Big Tech companies. In this case, I think he’s likely pre-filtering his sample set to people with si…

> Most people really do have to pivot up through some more average jobs first before landing the Big Tech jobs with huge paychecks. But the assertion here is that too many “pivoting up” jobs are a negative indicator. (An “upper class” programmer wouldn’t spend time in the “lower” classes.) Not saying I agree or disagree with this, but the existence of a class system in tech jobs is the OP’s central point. Edit: The O…

"Wrong kind of experience is worse than no experience" is an interesting concept.

It implies that the people thinking like this think that people aren't mutable. With no experience, you're a tabula rasa, but once you've been carved, that's it, fixed in stone.

Which may be true for some people, but I'm fairly certain that humans are known for their adaptability, their willingness to learn.

At least that's why they get more skill points per level in D&D.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#148

Post by calderwoodra »

madrox wrote: post #4

As a hiring manager, I've found entry level roles to be the hardest to fill well. No metric is a guarantee of a quality candidate. I loathe whiteboard programming, but for entry level jobs it's at least a signal that they're putting in the work to figure out how to be successful within a structure. Beyond that, I want a narrative for the candidate's career...both where they've been and where they want to go. It helps…

Maybe this is part of why I got my first job - told my interviewer my plan was to become the CEO

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#149

Post by natpalmer1776 »

germinalphrase wrote: post #145
natpalmer1776 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every PM I have met pivoted from a technical or front line role. External hires for PMs without direct prior experience are probably lottery-esque happenings.

I expect you’re meaning product management here rather than project management, yes?

Well, given my anecdotal, and oddly specific, experience with educators seeking to enter tech-adjacent roles I assumed that PM meant Project Manager.

Either way, entering tech industry right now is a tough proposition and I would personally advise anyone looking at doing so to case as wide a net as possible, as moving between roles in-industry tends to be much easier.

Re: Having no experience can be better than having the wrong experience

#150

Post by travisjungroth »

gammabetadelta wrote: post #139
r3012 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How should they know where they want to go if they're entry-level? I think it’s totally reasonable to expect people to have a plan. It’s also totally reasonable, and expected really, for that plan to change over time. But working without a plan, which implies working without goals, is rarely a recipe for success.

setting career goals seems pretty silly though im nearly 20 years into my career i barely can predict where i'll be in one year, let alone five for the first 10 years my only goal was to make more money and not hate work not a great goal from a hiring manager perspective as a hiring manager, i ask what folks like to do and see if that aligns with what we need them to do

Ok, you've said what you did in the beginning of your career and what you now do when it comes to career goals. Did this work? Do you consider yourself successful? If so, do you consider yourself successful in spite of or because of your lack of career goals?

I don't know you, so it's hard to draw much from what you're saying.

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