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Vite – Next Generation Front End Tooling

main.vitejs.dev

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Re: Vite – Next Generation Front End Tooling

#141

Post by gmassman »

LtWorf wrote: post #85
blowski wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's Advocate position here. I don't know much about carpentry, and if I look at a website selling saws, I will struggle to understand the difference between different models. Dumbing down to an extent that I understand (when I probably won't buy the product anyway) risks alienating the target market that will. Due to customer demands, end-user requirements, and device fragmentation, front-end development has genu…

Developer here. I think I can speak for everyone when I say that even when we work with the thing, we can't understand the homepage of the thing. For example at my $DAYJOB I know what we do but if I didn't the website wouldn't help me to understand.

I'm also a developer and this is a terrible overstatement. My company sells a product that isn't particularly hard to understand, and our www site makes it pretty clear what we're selling.

Re: Vite – Next Generation Front End Tooling

#142

Post by blowski »

sam0x17 wrote: post #131
blowski wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's Advocate position here. I don't know much about carpentry, and if I look at a website selling saws, I will struggle to understand the difference between different models. Dumbing down to an extent that I understand (when I probably won't buy the product anyway) risks alienating the target market that will. Due to customer demands, end-user requirements, and device fragmentation, front-end development has genu…

Sticking with your analogy, in the early 2000s we built cabinents and intricate mantelpieces and things ike that, and there were essentially no tools. In the early 2022s we still build cabinents and intricate mantelpieces, but there are a million tools. Meanwhile browser support has become way more consistent across the board and CSS has become easier, yet we think we need super complex tools to do the same tasks we…

when I started building websites in the late 90s, I needed to support Internet Explorer and Netscape running 15" CRT monitors. Few cared much about accessibility, performance, security, SEO, experimental releases. Clients wanted a 3 page website with few design requirements. I sliced up some PSDs into HTML pages with tables on it, and uploaded it via FTP to a single server.

If I tried to run a web-based business offering that today, I'd get very litle business.

Re: Vite – Next Generation Front End Tooling

#143

Post by matt89 »

finfinfin wrote: post #130
monkey_monkey wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Next gen front end tooling" - for anyone with some vague knowledge of front end development would understand that this is going to be something like webpack, or mix, or grunt, or gulp. Not every front page has to assume the person going to it knows nothing.

Front-end tooling that I have to run on the server? Even people familiar with the JS ecosystem might be confused by that.

I believe you are overexaggerating. It has always been true that you needed some kind of local server when doing frontend development. There are multiple browser mechanism that would not work in any way other than when rendering html/css/js that was returned from a server.

Consequently a build tool (or dev-tool) that offers you a dev-server is really nothing weird in frontend development world. Same as 10-15 years ago when using jQuery and PHP and you would use XAMPP or LAMPP.

Re: Vite – Next Generation Front End Tooling

#144

Post by mrwnmonm »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #126
krick wrote: post #46

It gave me a pause to think about how it came that I can never really tell what am I looking at anymore. Forget the HN title, which is stupid — what does this landing page tell me? Well, that it's… next gen, and it apparently can catch up with me, which is not much, since I'm not really catching up with what's going on anyway. Also, that it's "tooling". Like IDE, or framework, or maybe a chainsaw. Can't tell. "Gettin…

Terrible landing page for an otherwise excellent tool. It sets up JS transpiling and bundling for you in an easy way, then provide a server with pretty fast hot reload. This solves 2 problems: - the complicated js project stack is now simple to setup, unlike with webpack - saving and seeing the result of your coding is now almost instant, unlike with CRA It's a joy to use, given that it's from VueJS author, and I hig…

So, this is not a framework like React, right?

Re: Vite – Next Generation Front End Tooling

#145

Post by mrwnmonm »

blowski wrote: post #69
thrdbndndn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a developer and particularly not a front-end one. I have this problem all the time. Even some of the more "obvious" ones, say, nuxtjs, I have a hard time to get what exactly it offers and why I should use it.

Devil's Advocate position here. I don't know much about carpentry, and if I look at a website selling saws, I will struggle to understand the difference between different models. Dumbing down to an extent that I understand (when I probably won't buy the product anyway) risks alienating the target market that will. Due to customer demands, end-user requirements, and device fragmentation, front-end development has genu…

But he is a developer.

Re: Vite – Next Generation Front End Tooling

#146

Post by matt89 »

francisofascii wrote: post #128
rvdginste wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...and you never really grasp before moving on to the next thing. Then why do you move on to the next thing? Not a frontend dev, but I notice that a lot of frontend devs seem to be really eager to jump to the next hot thing when it becomes available, even though the thing they are using is still well maintained.

Unfortunately it is necessary to stay employable. I hope I am wrong, but a react novice might get more interviews than a JQuery expert.

But React is now probably about 7-8 years old. Is it really this shiny new technology that "everyone must jump to"? Yes jQuery devs probably don't get a lot of work right now, and yes you probably should keep up with React itself.

But I don't think that it is necessary to literally switch technology every 1-2 years to keep up, if we can use React (or Vue) which has been stable for a while and is still wildly popular.

Re: Vite – Next Generation Front End Tooling

#147

Post by cto_official »

somenewaccount1 wrote: post #132
kossTKR wrote: post #59

Working with front end for 5+ years have nearly made me switch careers. There's an absolute onslaught of languages, frameworks, patterns and now also "tools" that never really work in you editor, and you never really grasp before moving on to the next thing. I think me and my team have spent 90% of our time working with tooling, and all creativity and joy has gone out the window - because you never become a master, a…

I can't wait for deno.js to really skyrocket. It solves all of this garbage packaging dependency nonsense.

was just reading about them, the were trending on github today.. if we want to port an existing typescript project to deno any ideas how complex it would be ?

Re: Vite – Next Generation Front End Tooling

#148

Post by lucideer »

krick wrote: post #46

It gave me a pause to think about how it came that I can never really tell what am I looking at anymore. Forget the HN title, which is stupid — what does this landing page tell me? Well, that it's… next gen, and it apparently can catch up with me, which is not much, since I'm not really catching up with what's going on anyway. Also, that it's "tooling". Like IDE, or framework, or maybe a chainsaw. Can't tell. "Gettin…

> it apparently can catch up with me, which is not much, since I'm not really catching up with what's going on anyway

This entirely depends on your situation but for a tool like this (the selling point being that it does it all for you) I think this is less about catching up with you and more about providing you with the tooling that catches up to the myriad of things in JS that you may feel the need to catch up with.

In this case it's most likely referring to the decision to use native es modules to serve non-dependency code. This means and code you write can use native browser cutting edge without you needing to worry about "what build tooling supports the latest documented standard native browser features" - one of the pains of building is using X standard native tech documented clearly on MDN and finding out it doesn't work cleanly with a specific combination of webpack/rollup plugins I'm leveraging right now. This just lets you use what's standard.

Re: Vite – Next Generation Front End Tooling

#150

Post by blowski »

mrwnmonm wrote: post #145
blowski wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's Advocate position here. I don't know much about carpentry, and if I look at a website selling saws, I will struggle to understand the difference between different models. Dumbing down to an extent that I understand (when I probably won't buy the product anyway) risks alienating the target market that will. Due to customer demands, end-user requirements, and device fragmentation, front-end development has genu…

But he is a developer.

They are not a specialist front-end dev.

To use an analogy closer to home, if the average front-end dev were to look at a page talking about some new C++ compiler, they'd say "wat?".

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