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FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

ftc.gov

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Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#141

Post by trhway »

liaukovv wrote: post #140
jjeaff wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was chatting with an elderly man in front of me in line at the post office years ago. He was complaining that he had already paid so many fees but was really close to collecting his winnings from the Australian lottery (we were in the US). And according to him, he never even entered the lottery. I told him that this was a common scam and that they were simply stealing his money and to not send them anymore. He said…

Why do you consider yourself or the cashier to be in position to deny the man his lawful right to be stupid?

Well, if one sees a crime being committed against an elderly person, it is kind of an recognized social duty to intercede, though really there seems to be no good practical way of doing so in the case like this.

And some level of stupidity, either natural or appearing with age, qualifies people to lose their right to be stupid, ie. conservatorship. Unfortunately it is a very heavy legal process of a sledgehammer when i think in many cases it should be a surgeon knife.

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#142

Post by anony999 »

granzymes wrote: post #13

For years, according to the complaint, it was Walmart’s stated policy for its employees to issue payouts even in the case of a suspicious money transfer, making it easy for scammers to retrieve fraud proceeds at a Walmart location. The complaint cites a Walmart reference guide for employees that stated: “If you suspect fraud, complete the transaction.” Wow!

So the customers should be considered criminals until proven otherwise...smart FTC

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#143

Post by chewz »

iasay wrote: post #131
chewz wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds of HSBC - look the othere way... > In a sprawling, low-rise building abutting pasture land in New Castle, Delaware, HSBC’s anti-money laundering staff review customer transactions and so-called alerts generated when the bank’s monitoring systems spot a suspicious transaction. > Former employees in the New Castle office describe a febrile boiler-room environment overseen by managers uninterested in investigati…

This is similar to how the city of London police financial crimes unit operate.

Let's not forget about Danske Bank who laundered 200 bilion dollars in Russian money until get caught..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danske_Bank_money_laundering_s...

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#144

Post by liaukovv »

trhway wrote: post #141
liaukovv wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider yourself or the cashier to be in position to deny the man his lawful right to be stupid?

Well, if one sees a crime being committed against an elderly person, it is kind of an recognized social duty to intercede, though really there seems to be no good practical way of doing so in the case like this. And some level of stupidity, either natural or appearing with age, qualifies people to lose their right to be stupid, ie. conservatorship. Unfortunately it is a very heavy legal process of a sledgehammer when…

I personally consider conservatorship immoral. "We know better so you are better off being my slave"

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#145

Post by roenxi »

trhway wrote: post #141
liaukovv wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider yourself or the cashier to be in position to deny the man his lawful right to be stupid?

Well, if one sees a crime being committed against an elderly person, it is kind of an recognized social duty to intercede, though really there seems to be no good practical way of doing so in the case like this. And some level of stupidity, either natural or appearing with age, qualifies people to lose their right to be stupid, ie. conservatorship. Unfortunately it is a very heavy legal process of a sledgehammer when…

There is a raw question of power here - who has final say over how the money gets spent? They own the money.

Letting old people get scammed is unpleasant. Letting old people be disenfranchised by random clerks and passers by is substantially worse.

All the outcomes are bad, the one implied as an improvement here is much worse than the status quo.

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#146

Post by mschuster91 »

Aspos wrote: post #80
MBCook wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What regulations would have solved this problem? I think making transferring money much faster/easier instead of the current ACH system would help. But I’m assuming you’re thinking of other things.

Many kinds of fraud mentioned in this post and the original article hinge on the fact that fraudsters can easily withdraw the money from the destination account. Just close this loophole and a bunch of fraud schemes will go obsolete. Require physical presence in the bank with machine readable biometrics passport for account opening (just like everywhere else) and boom, half the fraud schemes are gone. US forced all o…

> Require physical presence in the bank with machine readable biometrics passport for account opening (just like everywhere else)

The problem with that in the US is that the US - unlike almost every other developed nation - doesn't have a requirement for people to possess a government issued ID card or a passport. The reasons for this are multiple: right-wing/"sovereign citizen"-type of people afraid of the government building databases or whatever, people exploiting illegal immigrants (aka well-connected farmers and meatpackers) who would not be able to pay their staff, and people on the left who see it as yet another expense to be paid by poor people.

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#147

Post by mschuster91 »

MBCook wrote: post #73
Aspos wrote: post #29

There is a reason why such kinds of fraud are practically nonexistent in some other countries but are prevalent in the US. Alas, nearly every problem in the US stems from politics. A problem which could have been solved easily will keep being a problem for another decade. Regulators could have solved the problem at its root and make the scams impossible, but no, they would rather shoot the messenger and force money t…

What regulations would have solved this problem? I think making transferring money much faster/easier instead of the current ACH system would help. But I’m assuming you’re thinking of other things.

> What regulations would have solved this problem?

For one, crack down on caller ID fraud so people from scam call centers in India can't impersonate the IRS or whomever else. Next, require phone carriers to combat robo-dialers in general, even with correct numbers these are a plague.

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#148

Post by piva00 »

liaukovv wrote: post #140
jjeaff wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was chatting with an elderly man in front of me in line at the post office years ago. He was complaining that he had already paid so many fees but was really close to collecting his winnings from the Australian lottery (we were in the US). And according to him, he never even entered the lottery. I told him that this was a common scam and that they were simply stealing his money and to not send them anymore. He said…

Why do you consider yourself or the cashier to be in position to deny the man his lawful right to be stupid?

Why do you consider that total freedom of an oblivious individual fucking their finances is a good thing for society? As a society we are actually here to help others with our experiences, if the experience of a cashier with multiple fraudulent transactions can help a soul to not be a sucker, why shouldn't they use that power?

Why do you consider "lawful" as the only measure of "good"?

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#149

Post by liaukovv »

piva00 wrote: post #148
liaukovv wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider yourself or the cashier to be in position to deny the man his lawful right to be stupid?

Why do you consider that total freedom of an oblivious individual fucking their finances is a good thing for society? As a society we are actually here to help others with our experiences, if the experience of a cashier with multiple fraudulent transactions can help a soul to not be a sucker, why shouldn't they use that power? Why do you consider "lawful" as the only measure of "good"?

Freedom is important

Re: FTC Sues Walmart for Facilitating Money Transfer Fraud

#150

Post by scoopertrooper »

bluedino wrote: post #86
Aspos wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many kinds of fraud mentioned in this post and the original article hinge on the fact that fraudsters can easily withdraw the money from the destination account. Just close this loophole and a bunch of fraud schemes will go obsolete. Require physical presence in the bank with machine readable biometrics passport for account opening (just like everywhere else) and boom, half the fraud schemes are gone. US forced all o…

What about gift card scams?

They should just get rid of gift cards all together.

I couldn't think of a worse gift than a gift card. It has same level of thoughtlessness as gifting someone a bunch of cash, but brings them less utility because they're constrained to spending it at a specific store unless they on-sell the card at a haircut from the face value.

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