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Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

ominoushum.com

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Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#141

Post by dmoy »

espadrine wrote: post #129
Cyclical wrote: post #13

While very cool and seemingly well-designed, this seems like a derivative of the lock developed by the YouTuber StuffMadeHere. A little strange to see someone applying for a patent for a version of someone else's design.

It is even closer to the design I published a year ago: https://github.com/espadrine/lock-designs/blob/main/commitme... I don’t see how this patent has any legs to stand on.

> don’t see how this patent has any legs to stand on.

Well USPTO did move to first-to-file under Obama.

Is there a patent filed before this one?

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#142

Post by airforce1 »

gzer0 wrote: post #139

Please send this to https://www.youtube.com/c/lockpickinglawyer LockPickingLawyer has picked just about any and every single lock there is known to mankind. Would love to see him up against this! Would make for some great content.

As far as I know he never picked his bowley. https://youtu.be/qV8QKZNFxLw

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#143

Post by rasz »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #76
rasz wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and it will only cost you >$100K to invalidate

It feels like you never looked at https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2215.html and it might be worth giving that a quick read before pulling a number out of thin air. Yes, it costs money to get a patent invalidated based on prior art. But: an amount that even a single person who stands to actually gain from having a patent overturned should have no problem with. You're asking the USPO to spend time redoing w…

https://arapackelaw.com/inter-partes-review/ipr-better-inval...

The AIPLA Report of the Economic Survey for 2017 notes that the typical patent infringement suit with less than $1 million at stake costs on average costs more than $600,000 dollars, while the typical patent infringement suit with between $1-10 million at stake costs on average nearly $1.5 million to litigate.

https://blueironip.com/what-are-the-costs-to-enforce-or-defe...

Costs for IPR or Post-Grant Review (approximate mean):

    Through filing petition: $120,000.
    Through end of motion practice: $300,000.
    Through PTAB hearing: $400,000.
    Through appeal: $600,000

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#144

Post by rocqua »

swighton wrote: post #44

Interesting design. I made a lock a couple years ago that is quite similar in principle (though this design is different and has a couple nice improvements). https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4 One of my main goals is to be an inspiration, though if it was based by my design I wish they’d credit it. Especially since they’re patenting it.

Your videos were my first thought uppon reading this article. Even the formulation of 'seperating input from testing' matches your video.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#145

Post by necovek »

bryans wrote: post #115
upwardbound wrote: post #43

I don't know if this is too slow of an attack to count, but you could build an automated lockpicking machine that would iterate over the possible pin height combinations. If a fast robotic machine could input & test one key pattern per second, it would find the correct pattern in 12.96 hours or less. One pattern per second should be quite feasible. Here's an example video that shows how robots can move very quickly w…

Exactly. And based on the test mechanism simply requiring a ~46 degree turn to fail, I think it could actually be done in ~300ms per attempt, which would make the maximum solution even lower at ~4 hours. That's of course still a lot better than a traditional mechanism, which even brute force robotic pickers can tear through rapidly, but it's far from "unpickable." Ultimately, even lengthening the time per attempt wou…

I am not sure if I would call trying all combinations "picking s lock" — wouldn't adding a couple of pins simply make that infeasible again? You could also bring all 46k key variations and try them out, and you'll open it with 23k attempts on average, but that would not make the lock pickable if I was to talk about it.

I have no clue about locks, but there's a difference between brute forcing a password and decrypting it from the hash.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#146

Post by rocqua »

dmoy wrote: post #141
espadrine wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is even closer to the design I published a year ago: https://github.com/espadrine/lock-designs/blob/main/commitme... I don’t see how this patent has any legs to stand on.

> don’t see how this patent has any legs to stand on. Well USPTO did move to first-to-file under Obama. Is there a patent filed before this one?

That is for independent simultaneous discovery right? Which is a separate matter from 'does prior art exist' I would imagine.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#147

Post by espadrine »

dmoy wrote: post #141
espadrine wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is even closer to the design I published a year ago: https://github.com/espadrine/lock-designs/blob/main/commitme... I don’t see how this patent has any legs to stand on.

> don’t see how this patent has any legs to stand on. Well USPTO did move to first-to-file under Obama. Is there a patent filed before this one?

My understanding of MPEP 2126-2128[0] is that prior art published to a website can be disqualifying.

I don’t like patents, because given the world population, any idea was had by someone that didn’t have the resources to file it. Publishing a timestamped design is, I believe, one of the least expensive ways to create prior art without creating patents.

[0]: https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2128.html

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#148

Post by barrkel »

gzer0 wrote: post #139

Please send this to https://www.youtube.com/c/lockpickinglawyer LockPickingLawyer has picked just about any and every single lock there is known to mankind. Would love to see him up against this! Would make for some great content.

He generally only shows locks he knows how to pick. Unlocking is the payoff to the video and I don't think I've seen a single video where he didn't succeed, but if you read between the lines on his older videos, you notice him talking about the locks he recently learned to pick, locks he's never been able to pick, and so on.

He's very good, but he's not infallible. He just doesn't show his failures.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#149

Post by Gupie »

voldacar wrote: post #26

This actually might be unpickable. But the small space of keys (6^6 combinations) makes me think you could just fabricate every single key and test them one by one, if you were really determined

You could create a single mechanically adjustable key and a device to automatically try every combination.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#150

Post by femto »

ramraj07 wrote: post #113
swighton wrote: post #44

Interesting design. I made a lock a couple years ago that is quite similar in principle (though this design is different and has a couple nice improvements). https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4 One of my main goals is to be an inspiration, though if it was based by my design I wish they’d credit it. Especially since they’re patenting it.

You absolutely should sue them with prior art or something if they patent it. You had an amazing fairly well distributed YouTube video with this design anyway.

Anyone here can submit prior art during the patenting process. No suing or courts involved. You only have to care enough to make the submission.

Interestingly, videos don't seem to count? It must be a written description?

https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2206.html

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