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Programming in the Apocalypse

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Re: Programming in the Apocalypse

#141

Post by krastanov »

FargaColora wrote: post #135
skyfaller wrote: post #16

I agree that we need to plan for climate adaptation (preparing for predictable problems) and resilience (preparing for unpredictable problems), but I have a few kneejerk responses: - Although it's looking increasingly unlikely that we can avert climate disaster, we can never give up. For example, 8 degrees of warming would be much worse than 4 degrees of warming, and could mean the difference between human extinction…

"the difference between human extinction and the mere collapse of our civilization" Literally nobody is predicting any of those things, except propagandists and doomers. I would urge you to broaden your media intake to more mainstream sources, because it is not mentally healthy to be living a life under such falsehoods.

You misread their statement. They said "8 degrees". With 8 C increase in temperature, what they described could very much happen. We expect 4 C worst case, which is why we do not need to worry about extinction. I think they are saying that we do not need to worry about more than 4 C increase exactly because people in the past fought for the cause, and if they stopped fighting the same way today some people feel resignation and want to stop fighting, even 4 C would have been too optimistic. The fact that people in the past did not resign themselves to the status quo is why we do not need to worry about an 8 C increase.

Re: Programming in the Apocalypse

#142

Post by ivm »

FargaColora wrote: post #135
skyfaller wrote: post #16

I agree that we need to plan for climate adaptation (preparing for predictable problems) and resilience (preparing for unpredictable problems), but I have a few kneejerk responses: - Although it's looking increasingly unlikely that we can avert climate disaster, we can never give up. For example, 8 degrees of warming would be much worse than 4 degrees of warming, and could mean the difference between human extinction…

"the difference between human extinction and the mere collapse of our civilization" Literally nobody is predicting any of those things, except propagandists and doomers. I would urge you to broaden your media intake to more mainstream sources, because it is not mentally healthy to be living a life under such falsehoods.

This is not true, for example, "Humans Are Doomed to Go Extinct" was published in Scientific American last year: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-are-doomed...

Re: Programming in the Apocalypse

#143

Post by FargaColora »

ivm wrote: post #142
FargaColora wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the difference between human extinction and the mere collapse of our civilization" Literally nobody is predicting any of those things, except propagandists and doomers. I would urge you to broaden your media intake to more mainstream sources, because it is not mentally healthy to be living a life under such falsehoods.

This is not true, for example, "Humans Are Doomed to Go Extinct" was published in Scientific American last year: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-are-doomed...

That's... one man's opinion and at the absolute extreme end of accepted science. You will find a person willing to have a view on anything if you look hard enough.

If you read mainstream publications, then you will gradually form an opinion, which is that there is a climate emergency, but not that humanity will be destroyed.

Climate doomerism has been a catasrophe, because it means many people have "given up", when things can actually be done. The doomer propaganda jumped off the deep end, and the mainstream media should have called them our on their absurd nonsense years ago.

I notice the BBC is starting to fight back:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-61495035

Re: Programming in the Apocalypse

#144

Post by ivm »

kzzzznot wrote: post #132
poulpy123 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it insanely extreme ? Except if we are lucky and there is a Deus ex machina that saves us (which by definition is unpredictable), this is the current trajectory

Can you provide something to back up your apocalyptic claim?

The newest IPCC report (Aug 2021) is rather apocalyptic even in the best-case scenarios that are not happening currently. And their worst-case scenarios do not include possible feedback loops.

Re: Programming in the Apocalypse

#145

Post by notpachet »

dixego wrote: post #70

> Just wanted to follow up on my note from a few days ago in case it got buried under all of those e-mails about the flood. I’m concerned about how the Eastern Seaboard being swallowed by the Atlantic Ocean is going to affect our Q4 numbers, so I’d like to get your eyes on the latest earnings figures ASAP. On the bright side, the Asheville branch is just a five-minute drive from the beach now, so the all-hands meetin…

UW;DR

Underwater; didn't read

Re: Programming in the Apocalypse

#146

Post by yanderekko »

boppo1 wrote: post #38
luxuryballs wrote: post #21

“we have to accept immense hits to the global economy and the resulting poverty, suffering and impact. The scope of the change required is staggering. We've never done something like this” This is an insanely extreme claim with very little evidence to back it up, if we watch this unfold at the hands of global leadership please know that it didn’t have to be this way and somebody is taking advantage of all of us for p…

Yeah this narrative is troubling. I’ve read stuff from IPCC contributors who compare climate change to Covid, especially in the case of people living in the first world. Things will get harder and the shape of our lives will change, but “civilizational collapse” is a term from people gleefully imagining the end of the world like they would a zombie apocalypse.

I don't think they're gleeful, they just deeply believe that we need to reject capitalism and/or embrace some sort of global technocratic governance, and see the threat of climate catastrophe as the most-plausible mechanism that such a change would come about.

Re: Programming in the Apocalypse

#147

Post by boppo1 »

yanderekko wrote: post #146
boppo1 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this narrative is troubling. I’ve read stuff from IPCC contributors who compare climate change to Covid, especially in the case of people living in the first world. Things will get harder and the shape of our lives will change, but “civilizational collapse” is a term from people gleefully imagining the end of the world like they would a zombie apocalypse.

I don't think they're gleeful, they just deeply believe that we need to reject capitalism and/or embrace some sort of global technocratic governance, and see the threat of climate catastrophe as the most-plausible mechanism that such a change would come about.

That's an interesting take I hadn't thought of. At first I read it dismissively, but it's surprisingly plausible given the role software engineers have taken over the last 15 years.

Re: Programming in the Apocalypse

#148

Post by whatshisface »

dijit wrote: post #136
KerrAvon wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://also.kottke.org/22/04/the-mass-delusion-of-the-pande...

We have a widely deployed vaccine. COVID will live with us forever now, a pandemic has a few characteristics which make it so, one of which is capacity to overwhelm healthcare. As soon as covid couldn’t overwhelm our healthcare systems it was over. Now people will die every year with it, just like the flu. Sad reality, but reality nonetheless, the fact we couldn’t handle a lock-down cemented that we would be living w…

The vaccine only lasts six months. I am not sure how "widely deployed" it is anymore.

Re: Programming in the Apocalypse

#149

Post by ivm »

FargaColora wrote: post #143
ivm wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true, for example, "Humans Are Doomed to Go Extinct" was published in Scientific American last year: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-are-doomed...

That's... one man's opinion and at the absolute extreme end of accepted science. You will find a person willing to have a view on anything if you look hard enough. If you read mainstream publications, then you will gradually form an opinion, which is that there is a climate emergency, but not that humanity will be destroyed. Climate doomerism has been a catasrophe, because it means many people have "given up", when t…

Humanity probably will not be wiped out, but the current global civilization will collapse like it happened to many other civilizations before because they reached the ecological overshoot. I also thought that something "could be done" on a large scale, but after studying the problem in depth (starting with the IPCC report), I began to prepare on the community level for the impact in the next 10-20 years. That's the only area where something can be done.

By the way, BBC is not a reliable source, like other neoliberal propaganda they bet on continuing "business as usual" while coming up with some innovative solutions (so-called "techno-hopium").

Re: Programming in the Apocalypse

#150

Post by [deleted] »

titzer wrote: post #123
tasuki wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The pandemic taught me a lot about apocalypse. I don't think it has taught you much. All things considered, despite all the suffering by unlucky individuals, when you consider humanity as a whole, covid is an insignificant blip. If it's significant at all, it's only because of our response to it. > Covid looked nothing like a pandemic film, thank god. Covid was not 1% as bad as any pandemic featured in a film. Huma…

What COVID taught me is that the human ability to not give a fuck is apparently infinite. I have trouble processing the fact that a million people died (in the USA) and there is no mourning, no shared sense of tragedy or loss, no looking more kindly on other people, just a madder, faster dash on cash and even more finger-pointing. > Covid was not 1% as bad as any pandemic featured in a film. I'll be generous and not…

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