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Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

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141–150 of 161 posts

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#141
post #61

Here's my most recent recruiting cold call: Him: Hello, I need to speak to the person who manages your servers. Me: Uh, who is this? Him: I need to report an issue with your servers. Are you the person who manages the servers? Me: What kind of issue? Him: Do you manage the servers? Me: I manage the office. What's the issue you need to report? Him: Oh! I'm calling because I understand that it's very hard to find good…

$50 to the person in the office who can keep a recruiter on the phone the longest using only Emacs Eliza.

I think you should take it to the next level and use the zippy quotes from psychoanalyze-pinhead.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#142
As a third party executive recruiter, I definitely have to agree with many of the comments and frustrations that have been expressed. Unfortunately, at best the perception of recruiters is that they are a necessary evil sometimes in getting access to job opportunities. No recruiter is perfect and even the best retained ones do some cold calling during the week to establish relationships. However, I do agree the approach should not based on gimmicks and sales tricks, but have the intent to establish good rapport with those that are contacted.

But at the end of the day, a recruiter that is in tune with the market, cold calling should really make up less than 20% of their "deal" flow. Great hires are made through referrals, and great recruiters gets constant networking referrals to keep their pipelines full and their days busy. If the recruiter is doing their job, either they are getting warm leads from their networks when jobs are broadcasted, or their networks is referring strong talent to them.

Like a lawyer or accountant that desires to create a reputable brand in a particular marketplace, recruiters needs to see themselves as resources within this marketplace and not view recruiting as purely a transactional game. From my experience, just because I don't collect a fee does not make a relationship unsuccessful. Providing great customer service and building strong relationships will usually evolve into mutually beneficial interactions in subsequent years.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#143
post #138
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, you want that rarest of birds - shy sparks who aren't nestled in a large company yet. Too introverted to be really aware of their market value and have a life and smart enough that they're going to be obsessed with the work and work at it all the time. Considering I'm having a hard time finding "reasonably competent" Rails devs, I can't imagine how you might hire for that kind of position.

maybe some combination of an IQ or programming test plus a Myers-Briggs analysis. That would probably be a great way to screen. Or just recruit at MIT/CMU/Caltech...

While I see what you mean with referencing Myers-Briggs, do you really believe that it is useful? Some reference reading: http://www.skepdic.com/myersb.html

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#144

cue Peroni...

Typical. The one day I chose to ignore HN in order to make a dent in my mountain of work and this article gets posted.

For what it's worth, I agree wholeheartedly with the majority of the article. Recruiters who focus on start-ups are wasting their own time as well as the start-up's time. Yes there are a huge number of start-ups hiring and yes some will engage recruiters but the vast majority don't have the budget.

I would happily wager a months salary on the fact that 99.9% of recruiters don't understand how a tech start-up works and even if they make the effort to learn, every start-up is different with their own individual challenges and quirks and it requires an immense amount of time and effort to truly understand what these companies need. No recruiter will invest that level of time. Instead they will throw a few CV's at the role and hope something sticks.

I'm giving a talk at Hacker News London tomorrow night and the topic is 'Recruiting for start-ups'. It's a brief talk on how to improve your chances of finding the right people for your start-up and how to keep them. At no point do I even attempt to suggest they engage a recruiter, in fact I strongly encourage them not to.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#145
post #26
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had the skill set they'd be using it. Think "Those who can't, teach". Similar concept with recruiters. They're salespeople, not talent.

After reading Peroni's articles, I am thinking that recruiting firms need to hire great and talented recruiters instead of using incentives.

The ultimate issue here is that demand for recruiters (in London at least) far outweighs the talent pool so companies choose to hire decent sales people and mould them into recruiters. Due to the sales culture involved, monetary incentives are the only thing decent recruiters are interested in. If you find a talented and successful recruiter I can guarantee they are earning close to six figures a year (some earn a lot more than £100k) and should they put their own CV on the market they would have dozens of companies throwing ridiculous money at them to get them to come work for them.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#146
post #23

A few days ago I moderated a panel discussion at the Computer History Museum with the founders of Dropbox, Evernote, and Wildfire. I asked whether it was worth dealing with outside recruiters, and they all said no. They all had recruiters working for them in house. In fact between 3% and 5% of their employees were recruiters. They said the best source of people initially were the friends of the founders and the first…

This is exactly what's killing the recruitment industry. More and more companies are realising the value of having a decent inhouse recruitment team. Personally I believe it's a positive movement.

If you look at some of the most attractive companies such as Google & Facebook, they all have their own internal recruitment team and they rarely engage outside recruiters simply because their own team is immensley talented.

On that note, if anyone wants to capitalise on pg's insight and wants to hire a talented recruiter, I am really keen to shift to in-house recruitment!

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#147

I need to write a post to discuss this at greater depth, but... I am fucking astonished at how inept most recruiters are. I mean, just awful and useless at their "jobs." If we concede the point that, especially in the Valley, technical talent is in high demand, it stands to reason that any overture to such talent needs to be persuasive, informative and intriguing. It should explain the role in reasonable detail, whil…

I have to give a counterpoint, I recently had a great recruiter experience. The company had given him a spec of the person they wanted (someone who had been both a developer and a DBA on 24/7 trading systems), he went out and found me, made a convincing case as to why my career ambitions could be better fulfilled at his client, managed the whole process, negotiated me a great package, and I start there next week. Absolutely professional from start to finish, he's as good as his job as I am at mine. These guys are worth their weight in gold - but I'll admit, they are rarer than hen's teeth.

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#148
post #23

A few days ago I moderated a panel discussion at the Computer History Museum with the founders of Dropbox, Evernote, and Wildfire. I asked whether it was worth dealing with outside recruiters, and they all said no. They all had recruiters working for them in house. In fact between 3% and 5% of their employees were recruiters. They said the best source of people initially were the friends of the founders and the first…

as soon as you've exhausted this source you should start hiring recruiters.

Presumably the quality of the first recruiter you hire will have a significant impact if they are going to be bringing in other recruiters as well. So how do you hire a good recruiter?

Re: Recruiters are, by and large, a waste of your time

#150
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was the first developer hired at an early stage startup and I knew no one in the metro area where I eventually ended up working. It's unfair not to give someone a shot to interview based on a perceived notion that the best hires only come from your personal network.

My business had just tanked, I needed a job and I was 22. I had people skills, good communication and I was pretty damn good at what I did (systems engineering, sysadmin'ing) and aligning that with business needs (that's the important bit people sometimes forget). I went for a role that was senior, even though I had no actual job in the industry previously. I had four years of running my own business, but 2 years of…

My point was that people need to be given a chance at an entry level brought on a contract to hire but the argument prevalent here is to exclude anyone who you isn't in your network.
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