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Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

nature.com

141–150 of 170 posts

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People definitely report it and genuinely believe they have it.. but similar problems occur in a small subset of all people who recover from infectious diseases. So it may not be covid specific but it does seem to exist and with a wide ranging illness such as covid then obviously more overall people have it than from say pneumonia.

> People definitely report it and genuinely believe they have it.. This alone is not convincing, since hypochondriacs have never been rare in the first place and for the past few years have been encouraged and doubtlessly felt very vindicated.

If you understood how the brain creates pain and retains memory of the molecules that it interacts with you would understand that hyperchondria is a worse than useless diagnosis for anybody.

Certain people are going to recover faster from illness than other people. It isn’t because they have better mental hygiene.

They are fortunate. If you had long-covid you wouldn’t be able to type that because you would be mentally fatigued. Like Mike Tyson says, everyone’s got a plan until they get punched in the face. If your mitochondia locks up on you one day and your energy starts collapsing within 72hours of mild exertion I’d love seeing you blaming your own thinking to fix the situation while everyone else does.

I don’t feel vindicated. I am beating chronic fatigue syndrome anyway, I have to do spinal strenthening exercises, I have to get plenty of sleep, I have eat healthily, I have to not do too much physical exercise in a day, I can’t sit for too long or I end up with post-exertional malaise.

I think the people diagnosing other people with mental-disorders to explain what they couldn’t are going to get progressively more and more exposed as people find non-obvious ways to overcome their chronic multi-systemic health conditions. People are figuring it out.

There is a psycho-somatic component. There is a physical component. It is brought on by viral illnesses.

People with anxiety are prone to it but they are also prone to hypermobility(joint dislocation).

One of us is right. I’d hope I’m not a delusional hyperchondriac. When my fibula pops out of my knee joint and I pop it back in and carry on with my day is that hyperchondria? Or could that be in some way related to managing chronic fatigue syndrome of which long-covid appears to be a sub-set.

60% of people with hyper-mobility have anxiety disorders.

It doesn’t matter to me whether I’m right or you are right. All that matters to me is that I can sustain employment to rise up maslow’s hierarchy. I know that your approach would not have allowed me to do this because I tried it. Believe me I tried it.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#142
post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

That's the impression I get from the media. But if not for the media, I wouldn't know anybody was dying of anything. Nobody in any of my social circles have died in over 3 years. Going off what I've personally observed, I've seen no evidence of either a pandemic or the vaccines being dangerous. To be clear, I don't think it's all made up. Just that it's been blown up, completely out of proportion. All of it.

> I've seen no evidence

> Just that it's been blown up, completely out of proportion

No, not precisely. Others have seen dozens. Still getting conversation lines like "I called that former colleague since it's been years... His wife told me he went, lungless, two years ago, at the beginning of the whole thing". Similarly for other more recent matters (it's not important to go in details here).

It was not really "blown completely out of proportion", more like "very badly managed, communicationally, procedurally, juridically, strategically, civilly, socially" - in some areas.

A serious matter dealt with clumsily, mindlessly and hysterically.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#143
post #2

There are no conclusions to draw here. The study doesn't "show" anything -- it indicates a need for further research. I'm disappointed that Nature.com is engaging in this kind of sensational journalism. From their own article: > He praises the study, which was difficult to perform because of the amount and quality of data, but adds that it is limited because it does not break the data down by key factors, such as the…

> I'm disappointed that Nature.com is engaging in this kind of sensational journalism. I am too, but it is not surprising. It's getting them page views. We're also going to be seeing "long covid" articles for years to come as it's going to be a goldmine for research funding.

> It's getting them page views.

But why do they need page views??? It's not like they're going to go bankrupt if they lose advertising revenue. Their greatest asset is their brand name, and they're destroying it for... what?

It makes no sense.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#144
post #2

There are no conclusions to draw here. The study doesn't "show" anything -- it indicates a need for further research. I'm disappointed that Nature.com is engaging in this kind of sensational journalism. From their own article: > He praises the study, which was difficult to perform because of the amount and quality of data, but adds that it is limited because it does not break the data down by key factors, such as the…

The problem is we've set-up asymmetric incentive structure. Say, there are some uncertainties regarding the risk and aftermath of COVID. If you genuinely underestimate the risk, then you are a pro-grandma killer and one of the worst human beings in the world. But if you overplay the risk, then you are an amazing human being whose only flaw is caring too much about human lives. Unfortunately this becomes another 'The…

> If you genuinely underestimate the risk, then you are a pro-grandma killer and one of the worst human beings in the world.

I totally disagree with this. When omicron started spreading, a lot of scientists jumped to the conclusion that it was less lethal than previous variants. They were happy to share positive-sounding news, regardless of whether they turned out to be wrong. At the beginning, the evidence (from South Africa) was far from conclusive.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your risk of heart failure is much greater with infection than with vaccination. It turns out that Covid messes up your immune system and will reinfect you multiple times, so there will be no natural herd immunity. And with each infection , your heart failure chances goes up.

> It turns out that Covid messes up your immune system and will reinfect you multiple times, so there will be no natural herd immunity. I have an incredibly hard time believing this. Either this is true for basically every other virus we've dealt with since time began or covid is so unique and so novel that it somehow managed to do what no virus has done in the millions and billions of years viruses have existed. Qui…

> hard time believing this

What is it exactly that you do not believe? Reinfection potential? The flu does. Presumably to the layman, because of evolution. It is what you would you expect from biologic code selected to persist in time, to escape extinction.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am wondering how much immune "budget" do humans have for vaccines? ... Basically, the body has a limited amount of unspecialized naive T cells in its lifetime I'm not a medical professional, so I suspect that my opinion is just as much gibberish as yours clearly is, but with more self-awareness. Anyway, why would that "budget" be "for vaccines" _only_ ? Vaccines trigger the same mechanism as actual viral attacks,…

> I suspect that my opinion is just as much gibberish as yours clearly is, but with more self-awareness. OK thank you layman for your ad-hominem, I have extensive expertise in medecine and pharmacology and have extensively studied the thymus, spleen, associated peptides and immune and aging biomarkers, so what seems to you as gibberish is actual valid statements or for a few ones, very reasonable and necessary to be…

> I have extensive expertise in medecine and pharmacology

a) not present in your comment history - clearly that's not your focus area - and b) not even spelled correctly and c) I do not believe you

> and have extensively studied the thymus, spleen, associated peptides

Uh uh. Heart, liver and associated oligosaccharides. Gotcha. (this is equally irrelevant gibberish when talking about immune system responses)

> I do not say that this only apply for vaccines

Yeah, you do say that, you say "I am wondering how much immune "budget" do humans have for vaccines?"

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#148
post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

That's the impression I get from the media. But if not for the media, I wouldn't know anybody was dying of anything. Nobody in any of my social circles have died in over 3 years. Going off what I've personally observed, I've seen no evidence of either a pandemic or the vaccines being dangerous. To be clear, I don't think it's all made up. Just that it's been blown up, completely out of proportion. All of it.

I suppose you must not count the news broadcasts from NYC showing refrigerator trucks filled with bodies stacked like cordwood as “personally observed” evidence of a pandemic.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that could have nothing to do at all with the more deadly alpha and delta strains that are now extinct?

"Omicron Deaths in U.S. Exceed Delta’s Peak as Covid-19 Optimism Rises in Europe" https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-de...

Omicron is less deadly on an individual basis by, IIRC, about 60%; it causes more deaths on a population basis because it infects vastly more people.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am wondering how much immune "budget" do humans have for vaccines? ... Basically, the body has a limited amount of unspecialized naive T cells in its lifetime I'm not a medical professional, so I suspect that my opinion is just as much gibberish as yours clearly is, but with more self-awareness. Anyway, why would that "budget" be "for vaccines" _only_ ? Vaccines trigger the same mechanism as actual viral attacks,…

> I suspect that my opinion is just as much gibberish as yours clearly is, but with more self-awareness. OK thank you layman for your ad-hominem, I have extensive expertise in medecine and pharmacology and have extensively studied the thymus, spleen, associated peptides and immune and aging biomarkers, so what seems to you as gibberish is actual valid statements or for a few ones, very reasonable and necessary to be…

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