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Teach your kids poker, not chess

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Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#141

Post by zone411 »

mod wrote: post #104
goldeneye13_ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could play online with micro stakes. The smallest I know is 1p/2p game. Has a lot of players, people take it pretty seriously as these are the stages you play when learning. And you need about 50 buy ins (100$ total budget) to have enough to learn. This is not super cheap but can easily last for a year or more assuming the person is actually learning to play rather than doing mad gambling.

> you need about 50 buy ins to have enough to learn Says who? Did you make this up?

50 buyins is pretty reasonable for an average (which means losing because of the rake) player for a year. You can plug in the numbers into one of the poker variance calculators. At 1 hour per day (60 hands), 10 BB/100 rake, NLHE 6-max cash games only, you get the 95% confidence interval of -5150 BB to 770 BB after 1 year.

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#144

Post by oneoff786 »

LewisVerstappen wrote: post #127
HPsquared wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chess is logic, poker is rhetoric.

This is not true in the slightest. Poker is far, far more mathematical than chess. The idea that poker pros are only going off "reads" is completely ludicrous. They have a set game-theory-optimal style of playing, and then use an opponents flaws/"tells" to deviate from the GTO style to exploit those tells. An example of a flaw could be if the opponent is playing shitty hole cards. If the opponent has played in every…

The fancy deep learning poker bots that beat pros don’t even consider past opponent behavior.

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#145

Post by kstenerud »

Fidelix wrote: post #129
kstenerud wrote: post #123

Or better yet: Let your kids play whatever they want to play. There is no wrong game or inferior game. Introduce them to many games, sure, but then back off. Once you start directing their play or supervising their play, you do more harm than good.

That's not how parenting works. As a parent, you are supposed to make the choices that increase the chances of better outcomes for the children, whatever the parent considers those better outcomes to be.

Spoken like a true helicopter parent.

This kind of thing was huge in the Chinese community when I was growing up. Every child played chess, was taking violin or piano lessons, was a member of the debate club, was vying for a place on the student council, was in AP classes, was being driven to so many extracurricular activities (chosen by their parents of course), and was downright MISERABLE. One even committed suicide.

Meanwhile the rest of us would go out to wherever we wanted (by bike usually), do whatever we wanted, came home by dinner, and had a wonderful childhood.

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#146

Post by kurikuri »

hackernewds wrote: post #140
LewisVerstappen wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true in the slightest. Poker is far, far more mathematical than chess. The idea that poker pros are only going off "reads" is completely ludicrous. They have a set game-theory-optimal style of playing, and then use an opponents flaws/"tells" to deviate from the GTO style to exploit those tells. An example of a flaw could be if the opponent is playing shitty hole cards. If the opponent has played in every…

The strategy you suggest seems too simplistic and predictable to even trick a beginner to be honest

It might seem to be to simple, but don’t underestimate the power of boredom and curiosity. The new player won’t know what you’ve been folding the whole time and will have had nothing else to do but call a sudden change in behavior to see what you have, or fold and keep the pattern going.

One player (beginner) wants to have fun (maybe not overtly, but this is usually the case), the other wants to make money.

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#147

Post by christophilus »

hackernewds wrote: post #140
LewisVerstappen wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true in the slightest. Poker is far, far more mathematical than chess. The idea that poker pros are only going off "reads" is completely ludicrous. They have a set game-theory-optimal style of playing, and then use an opponents flaws/"tells" to deviate from the GTO style to exploit those tells. An example of a flaw could be if the opponent is playing shitty hole cards. If the opponent has played in every…

The strategy you suggest seems too simplistic and predictable to even trick a beginner to be honest

I’ve used the strategy in some pretty big games. People get bored, drunk, lazy, etc. It’s pretty easy to consistently make money at poker if you aren’t playing anyone who takes it seriously.

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#148

Post by vjerancrnjak »

dragontamer wrote: post #66
derivagral wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up on Pokemon & MTG. Got competitive, made the Tour, etc. I am not sure I want to repeat this with my son. A friend is going through this with his child ( The upside is that a healthy exposure to "work doesn't equal outcome", risk calcs, and reading people are very helpful lessons to learn, so personally I'm a bit torn on this. I wonder if there isn't a happy middle ground these days that doesn't require a "bu…

Pokemon the video game, not the TCG. The video game requires no money aside from the cartridge, and the strategy is surprisingly deep: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-metagame-discuss... Magic is the superior TCG in my opinion, thou Pokemon TCG is fun. In any case, don't play the 'pay to win' formats. Instead, play draft or sealed, which are much more fair.

Hmm, interesting, I went through the guides and I have no idea what this game is about.

Is it just regular Pokemon game but somehow you play against others online?

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#149

Post by oneoff786 »

dragontamer wrote: post #66
derivagral wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up on Pokemon & MTG. Got competitive, made the Tour, etc. I am not sure I want to repeat this with my son. A friend is going through this with his child ( The upside is that a healthy exposure to "work doesn't equal outcome", risk calcs, and reading people are very helpful lessons to learn, so personally I'm a bit torn on this. I wonder if there isn't a happy middle ground these days that doesn't require a "bu…

Pokemon the video game, not the TCG. The video game requires no money aside from the cartridge, and the strategy is surprisingly deep: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-metagame-discuss... Magic is the superior TCG in my opinion, thou Pokemon TCG is fun. In any case, don't play the 'pay to win' formats. Instead, play draft or sealed, which are much more fair.

Pokémon gameplay can be deep but it’s pretty impenetrable for a kid just playing the game on his own. Most kids will just use the biggest attack moves, and that’s absolutely fine for the difficulty of the single player story made last I checked.

I wouldn’t really want kids getting deep into an online community meta personally.

Re: Teach your kids poker, not chess

#150

Post by oneoff786 »

vjerancrnjak wrote: post #148
dragontamer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pokemon the video game, not the TCG. The video game requires no money aside from the cartridge, and the strategy is surprisingly deep: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-metagame-discuss... Magic is the superior TCG in my opinion, thou Pokemon TCG is fun. In any case, don't play the 'pay to win' formats. Instead, play draft or sealed, which are much more fair.

Hmm, interesting, I went through the guides and I have no idea what this game is about. Is it just regular Pokemon game but somehow you play against others online?

Yes
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