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The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

nature.com

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Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#141

Post by Wowfunhappy »

the_only_law wrote: post #106
rapind wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you wanna believe that your hours on COD have made you a genius, go ahead, I won't stop you. Just don't imagine that this research proves it. Video games, like all things, should not all be treated equal. I could certainly see problem solving skills developing from world building or highly complex games (Civ, PoE, etc.). In fact, most (but not all) highly successful games have depth, which requires time investme…

> I could certainly see problem solving skills developing from world building or highly complex games (Civ, PoE, etc.). In fact, most (but not all) highly successful games have depth, which requires time investment and problem solving. I’m a big grand strategy fan, mostly Paradox games rn, and I almost feel like these are worse for me because the depth keeps me engaged longer (and honesty waste a lot of time) compare…

I wouldn't underestimate how much time people can sink into dumb gotcha games. Maybe not you, but others.

IMO, the biggest problem with modern video games is how many of them are designed to keep you playing virtually forever. I think a game like Zelda (maybe not BoTW, but definitely OoT) is great for children, because it teaches problem solving and rational thinking, and it has a natural time limit! You might play it incessantly for a few days, but eventually you'll reach the end and need to seek out a new experience.

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#142

Post by wing-_-nuts »

dijit wrote: post #131
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you wanna believe that your hours on COD have made you a genius, go ahead, I won't stop you. Just don't imagine that this research proves it. You know there are more video games styles than FPS right? Strategy games teach patience and discipline, EVE online teaches economics, even the much dismissed 'mindless' fps teach teamwork. I think it's likely that at least some games do increase intelligence relative to ot…

> mindlessly I think this is probably more key than you think. Mindlessly watching junk food TV is not going to help you a lot. It's not very "nutrient rich" (to continue the expression) in terms of knowledge gained.. but you will probably gain some. Watching documentaries and, crucially, actively watching them is probably very good in terms of how much you learn.

It takes a certain kind of nerdy kid to sit down and watch a documentary (not judging, I was that certain kind of nerdy kid). With video games, the user, i.e. child is actively engaged. Video games require more from the consumer. I found myself much more likely to dig into history while playing civilization than I did while watching a documentary for example.

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#143

Post by slothtrop »

watwut wrote: post #74
christophilus wrote: post #5

I’ve tried to encourage my wife to choose video games over Disney+ when she needs to drop the kids in front of something, but she still has a strong resistance to the idea that games are better. To me, it’s pretty obvious. The kids problem solve when gaming, and are obviously engaged. When watching TV, they look like zombies. I think my wife’s biggest hang up with games is that she was always told that they rot your…

Very very honestly, my experience with people who watch Disney too much is much much better then with excessive gamers. Only one of those groups yells, swears and is vent their anger at people around when they loose the match. For the record, my kids do play games, I never did complete ban. But, the gaming does not seem to be superior, does not zombify them less nor leads to more inventive play after session finished…

You might as well lambast sports on the conceit that kids might swear and get angry for losing.

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#144

Post by AlexandrB »

michaelt wrote: post #107
d3ckard wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any case, using CoD as an example does not exactly show good will. I personally believe in huge gains from gaming, based on personal experience (so obviously n = 1, read further accordingly). Platformers train hand-eye coordination and pattern recognition, strategies teach resource management, RPGs about optimization and adopting growth mindset, racing games require long-time concentration, puzzlers and adventure…

> Platformers train hand-eye coordination and pattern recognition, strategies teach resource management, RPGs about optimization and adopting growth mindset... Sure - and joining the high school football team teaches teamwork, self-discipline, dealing with adversity, appearing before crowds, nutrition, fitness, etc etc So what?

I'm actually really curious what effect playing fast, twitchy games will have on things like reaction time as one ages. Would be interesting to see long-term studies on the subject.

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#145

Post by mc32 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #141
the_only_law wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could certainly see problem solving skills developing from world building or highly complex games (Civ, PoE, etc.). In fact, most (but not all) highly successful games have depth, which requires time investment and problem solving. I’m a big grand strategy fan, mostly Paradox games rn, and I almost feel like these are worse for me because the depth keeps me engaged longer (and honesty waste a lot of time) compare…

I wouldn't underestimate how much time people can sink into dumb gotcha games. Maybe not you, but others. IMO, the biggest problem with modern video games is how many of them are designed to keep you playing virtually forever. I think a game like Zelda (maybe not BoTW, but definitely OoT) is great for children, because it teaches problem solving and rational thinking, and it has a natural time limit! You might play i…

Some years ago it was farmville that wasted people's time.

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#146

Post by AlexandrB »

nosianu wrote: post #105
d3ckard wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any case, using CoD as an example does not exactly show good will. I personally believe in huge gains from gaming, based on personal experience (so obviously n = 1, read further accordingly). Platformers train hand-eye coordination and pattern recognition, strategies teach resource management, RPGs about optimization and adopting growth mindset, racing games require long-time concentration, puzzlers and adventure…

If you seriously play the game you get good at... the game. Even within the same game genre that barely translates. People good at Starcraft I struggled with Starcraft II, people great at Warcraft made little headway in Starcraft II (e.g. WCIII players like Grubby or Happy). Given that, claiming that things even further removed than those other games, which closely resemble one another, requires quite a bit of proof.…

> Even within the same game genre that barely translates. People good at Starcraft I struggled with Starcraft II, people great at Warcraft made little headway in Starcraft II (e.g. WCIII players like Grubby or Happy).

That might be true if you're comparing the top 0.1%, but someone who played a lot of Starcraft would be miles ahead of any newcomer in both Starcraft II and Warcraft III.

Your example is like saying that a world-class sprinter would struggle to be a world-class cyclist. Yes, that's true, but the aspects that do carry over - cardio and muscle development - would immediately put them in the top 5% of the field even if they never win the Tour de France.

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#147

Post by germinalphrase »

npilk wrote: post #50

Steven Johnson had an interesting take on this in his book Everything Bad Is Good For You: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_Bad_Is_Good_for_Y... TL;DR - the complexity of media has been increasing over the past decades, which means that children spending time with digital media are benefiting from it relative to past generations. As an example, playing a modern AAA video game is much more mentally stimulati…

A counter argument (made by Alan Kay and others) is that the language complexity of what people read is reducing which is leading to a return to an oral culture rather than literate culture (to our collective detriment). My anecdotal experience as a high school English teacher leads me to say this feels true.

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#148

Post by paulluuk »

the_only_law wrote: post #106
rapind wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you wanna believe that your hours on COD have made you a genius, go ahead, I won't stop you. Just don't imagine that this research proves it. Video games, like all things, should not all be treated equal. I could certainly see problem solving skills developing from world building or highly complex games (Civ, PoE, etc.). In fact, most (but not all) highly successful games have depth, which requires time investme…

> I could certainly see problem solving skills developing from world building or highly complex games (Civ, PoE, etc.). In fact, most (but not all) highly successful games have depth, which requires time investment and problem solving. I’m a big grand strategy fan, mostly Paradox games rn, and I almost feel like these are worse for me because the depth keeps me engaged longer (and honesty waste a lot of time) compare…

I think that even if we found that children who play difficult games tend to be more intelligent, that still makes it hard to separate correlation from causation. Do children become smarter because they play difficult games? Or do smart children enjoy playing difficult games? Or both?

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#149

Post by wing-_-nuts »

jimbokun wrote: post #136
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let them call? Letting your children roam unattended is not child abuse, especially if the child is old enough to reasonably keep themselves safe.

Explain that to the cops and Child Protective Services.

I absolutely would. It sickens me how our society seems hellbent on making sure everyone is anxious and fearful of everything, all of the time. If people do not stand up and push back, this sort of government paternalism just keeps intruding. I'd fight any charges against me to the supreme court if necessary, and I'd hope they'd set a precedent.
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