Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

tutanota.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 431 posts

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#141

Post by Freak_NL »

marsRoverDev wrote: post #117
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

My understanding of this technology was it was usually a hash or fingerprint of some form of the material, to be compared against a database of hashes of known-bad material. I doubt EU countries have the infrastructure or budget to run models across everything, no?

Even with a database of hashes the risk remains. If someone gets off on nude children, then there is nothing stopping them from collecting innocent photographs from social media¹, reposting these on seedy or oniony websites, and have the hash ending up in the huge black box of CSAM hashes by an automated scraper. I am not under the impression that such a database is curated too closely.

1: This is not something I'm personally at risk of, because my parents are tech savvy enough not to post nude pics of a toddler anywhere but in a private chat with his parents (i.e., me and my wife).

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#143

Post by belter »

Freak_NL wrote: post #91
stef25 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably not the first person to ask the question of "but what about parents taking pictures of their naked kids in a pool", I'm sure they plan on having some way of dealing with it if anything to lighten their workload. That doesn't mean it will be perfect but no matter how jaded we all are, nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.

I don't see how it will be different this time. The past decade has seen a bunch of failed projects that used algorithms to do the heavy lifting, and justice and redress for those involved has not even been served in all cases. The Dutch Toeslagenaffaire¹ was a massive failure of using discriminating algorithms to judge if tax payers were defrauding the state (most of those marked as fraudsters were innocent and many…

To call Dutch Toeslagenaffaire a failure of discriminating algorithms, when the main criteria was: Manually identify innocents based if they were born outside the Netherlands or married to somebody born outside the Netherlands, or if they were born in the Netherlands, had Dutch nationality but grand parents born outside the Netherlands....Is a very strange characterization.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#144

Post by peoplefromibiza »

hulitu wrote: post #128
chinathrow wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same as always. Do you have a guess about who is behind that lasting global push against private communications?

Your government who wants to control you. Or do you still think that data is collected just so that Google can give you more ads ?

> Your government who wants to control you

How exactly?

In Italy we had 67 different governments since 1946.

What can they do with CSAM data?

Government can't blackmail citizen, they can't use CSAM scans for other purposes, they can't even authorize a scan, because that's the justice system prerogative.

Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea?

They are as weak as they can be.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#145

Post by pantalaimon »

vetinari wrote: post #97
pantalaimon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It's the most efficient use of resources and allows for some great cultural and public infrastructure to exist that just doesn't make sense without density.

Just because it is most efficient, does not mean it is enjoyable or that the life in such a hive isn't missing some qualities.

I find it quite enjoyable, everything is just a walk away and good public transport makes sense.

You have enough people that even niche cultural offers will find an audience.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#146

Post by tluyben2 »

op00to wrote: post #75
krono wrote: post #7

Yeah not like this. I will turn myself into a black hole as much as possible. If they somehow ever come to suspect me of these things I will gladly do anything I can to support their investigations. They can come by with a warrant, look through my message history specifically and only for evidence related to their investigation, it will happen in my presence, and no copies of my data will be made and/or fed into the…

Unfortunately, here's what will really happen: 5:30am, loud knock at the door. You open the door a crack to see who it is. Cops bust in. You're immediately handcuffed and sat outside. Cops take anything with a screen, usb plug, etc. All your media. All your computers. All your external hard drives. Every one of these devices will be imaged, and archived prior to being searched. The data will be kept for years, to pro…

That won’t happen here but sure, US type of police overreach makes a better soundbite with horribly vague proposals like this. And people should be scared so I guess it’s good; maybe they will protest (probably not though because the children the children).

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#148

Post by adrianN »

marsRoverDev wrote: post #117
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

My understanding of this technology was it was usually a hash or fingerprint of some form of the material, to be compared against a database of hashes of known-bad material. I doubt EU countries have the infrastructure or budget to run models across everything, no?

Unless the exact algorithm and data used is described in the law you don't know what the implementation will look like (or what it will look like in ten years).

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#149

Post by pueblito »

pantalaimon wrote: post #34
Tade0 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather ban (too) dense cities. Nobody needs to live at a density of 10k+ people per square kilometre .

Why? It's the most efficient use of resources and allows for some great cultural and public infrastructure to exist that just doesn't make sense without density.

It’s disgusting, that’s why. People stacked on each other living in shared filth breathing each other’s farts and hearing noise all the time… not to mention the obvious problem of how diseases spread in tight quarters.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#150

Post by tomxor »

marsRoverDev wrote: post #117
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

My understanding of this technology was it was usually a hash or fingerprint of some form of the material, to be compared against a database of hashes of known-bad material. I doubt EU countries have the infrastructure or budget to run models across everything, no?

They are effectively low resolution hashes - obviously they would be completely useless if they fail to detect a re-encoded or slightly transformed or cropped image. In this sense it's a hash with a very high collision rate... probably even higher if you limit it to innocent but otherwise visually similar image of parents and grandparents sending pictures of their own toddlers as GP describes.

This is when it gets scary, demonising people based on a hash collision with no evidence or context.

Post reply on HN