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Dark pattern: how YouTube makes sure you don’t always “skip ad”

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Re: Dark pattern: how YouTube makes sure you don’t always “skip ad”

#141

Post by mrweasel »

mobiuscog wrote: post #128

I would likely pay for youtube premium if the TV app wasn't so absymal. However, having something that does not allow sorting by 'new' (and constantly recommending videos that are many years old), regularly re-introducing channels that have been marked as 'do not show' along with injecting the popular junk into 'for you' despite me having constantly marked similar as 'not interested'. There is no way I will pay premi…

The AppleTV app for YouTube is… fine, but certainly not great. Google, like Facebook, seems to believe in algorithms above anything less. It sort of make sense when you’re relying on showing ads, but it degrades the experience for those who actually pay for the service.

That being said, my YouTube Premium subscription is easily the one I get the most enjoyment from, as compared to Netflix, HBO and similar.

Re: Dark pattern: how YouTube makes sure you don’t always “skip ad”

#142

Post by devnulll »

boardwaalk wrote: post #112
blindseer wrote: post #16

The ads are genuinely one of my most frustrating experiences when using the Chromecast with Google TV. And seeing this kind of pattern makes it more likely that I’ll never sign up for premium YouTube (whatever it is called) and just use YouTube less. Also, I swear they do this - If you click on the try YouTube premium for 14 days, once the 14 days end you are bombarded with extra ads. And ads that are usually not ski…

For all the kvetching about ads I see regarding YouTube, most people really could just pay Google and make it go away. I mean, I don’t like paying for things either, but it’s not worth the headache of ad blockers (which aren’t available on every device) and philosophically, I would rather the internet get away from ads everywhere and I’ll help that happen if I can. It helps that $10 is worth the many hours of use I g…

I am a huge fan of YouTube Premium. Youtube has become the de-facto video platform in our household, having totally displaced traditional shows.

To pay $10 per month to have unlimited content w/o ads is perfect. I don't understand the pushback.

Re: Dark pattern: how YouTube makes sure you don’t always “skip ad”

#144

Post by throw10920 »

duxup wrote: post #32
throw10920 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few people are objecting to the presence of ads, but instead the fact that Google tries to trick you into watching more ads and blame yourself for doing so. In an alternate universe without this dark pattern, there would still be ads - they would just have a consistent design that allowed you to skip the skippable ones without any thought, or alternatively longer/unskippable ads.

The fact that you can or can't skip ads doesn't imply any "blame" to me.

Ah, then let me explain it to you:

The reason why Google doesn't just take a 15-second ad with a 5-second unskippable section and turn it into a 15-second unskippable ad is because people will get frustrated with Google/YouTube and leave.

The current system causes people to stay, and blame themselves for not skipping the ad - "I'm just being lazy, it's only a few extra seconds."

That is the dark pattern.

Re: Dark pattern: how YouTube makes sure you don’t always “skip ad”

#145

Post by Aissen »

shantnutiwari wrote: post #117
ghoomketu wrote: post #43

People complain a lot about Youtube ads and how awful they are but as a thought experiment I once tried to imagine the amount of storage and bandwidth Youtube must need everyday to operate. So after some basic research it looks like they need to add almost 1 petabytes of storage and I couldn't find much info on the bandwidth and servers it uses. As much as I don't like Google for their shady business practices, I cou…

>People complain a lot about Youtube ads and how awful they are but as a thought experiment I once tried to imagine the amount of storage and bandwidth Youtube must need everyday to operate. There was a post here about how Vimeo is charging people $300+/month for their videos-- and someone did the math to show thats just the hosting/bandwidth costs. For one creator. Youtube has millions of videos-- Im surprised their…

What costs are you using ? Because cloud costs are definitely outrageous, and definitely not what an at-scale operation like Vimeo or YouTube is paying.

Re: Dark pattern: how YouTube makes sure you don’t always “skip ad”

#146

Post by travv0 »

tristan957 wrote: post #116
mark_l_watson wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, I am curious: you see ads on GMail? I haven’t seen ads in many years. What email client do you use? web app, phone app?

I can't recall seeing ads on the Android app, but there are definitely ads in the web client. The ads must do a very good job of disguising themselves if you haven't noticed them. I have moved most of my email to ProtonMail. So much nicer paying for that from a company that respects me rather than using a free product from a company who has no other purpose than to drive ad revenue.

I also haven't seen an ad on the Gmail web client in years. Maybe because I pay for extra storage through Google One?

Edit: It looks like it doesn't happen in the primary tab and I have all the other tabs disabled which would explain it.

Re: Dark pattern: how YouTube makes sure you don’t always “skip ad”

#147

Post by mrweasel »

the_snooze wrote: post #11
josefresco wrote: post #7

When I found out my kids spend more time on YouTube than any other video platform I paid for YouTube Premium. They're a little older now and are shifting back to other platforms but I don't think we'll cancel our subscription anytime soon given how many complaints I see about their ad delivery.

I'd be a lot more willing to pay for Premium if it were strictly to get rid of ads, without any of the bundled features that don't matter to me (e.g., Music, background playback, etc.). They experimented with it in certain European markets[0], and I'm disappointed that it hasn't made its way to the US. [0[ https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/2/22605455/youtube-premium-l...

That not really something they inform subscripers about. You also don’t appear to be able to downgrade to the lite subscription. I truly don’t mind paying for ad free YouTube, but it’s not the music service I’d pick if it wasn’t bundled.

Re: Dark pattern: how YouTube makes sure you don’t always “skip ad”

#148

Post by nimbius »

>By introducing so many versions of design, it forbids a pattern to be established and recognized by the users.

I dont think the author properly acknowledges just how voracious the human appetite for patterns are. We are absolute machines when it comes to spotting even the hint of a pattern, and few things can prevent us from establishing and identifying them as a function of our basic existence. millions of years of evolution have basically guaranteed that when patterns arise or exist, we are borg-like in our pursuit.

shuffling a few choices of skip is a cheap effort that probably appeased a few C level ad execs. the biggest coffin-nail for ads is of course adblock.

Re: Dark pattern: how YouTube makes sure you don’t always “skip ad”

#149

Post by aantix »

boardwaalk wrote: post #112
blindseer wrote: post #16

The ads are genuinely one of my most frustrating experiences when using the Chromecast with Google TV. And seeing this kind of pattern makes it more likely that I’ll never sign up for premium YouTube (whatever it is called) and just use YouTube less. Also, I swear they do this - If you click on the try YouTube premium for 14 days, once the 14 days end you are bombarded with extra ads. And ads that are usually not ski…

For all the kvetching about ads I see regarding YouTube, most people really could just pay Google and make it go away. I mean, I don’t like paying for things either, but it’s not worth the headache of ad blockers (which aren’t available on every device) and philosophically, I would rather the internet get away from ads everywhere and I’ll help that happen if I can. It helps that $10 is worth the many hours of use I g…

Youtube Premium is a quality of life upgrade.

It's amazing what a difference it makes when you don't have to go through the tension of battling ads for every three minute video you'd like to watch.

You're free to consume videos at the speed for which you're thinking of ideas/questions.

Re: Dark pattern: how YouTube makes sure you don’t always “skip ad”

#150

Post by LukeShu »

boardwaalk wrote: post #112
blindseer wrote: post #16

The ads are genuinely one of my most frustrating experiences when using the Chromecast with Google TV. And seeing this kind of pattern makes it more likely that I’ll never sign up for premium YouTube (whatever it is called) and just use YouTube less. Also, I swear they do this - If you click on the try YouTube premium for 14 days, once the 14 days end you are bombarded with extra ads. And ads that are usually not ski…

For all the kvetching about ads I see regarding YouTube, most people really could just pay Google and make it go away. I mean, I don’t like paying for things either, but it’s not worth the headache of ad blockers (which aren’t available on every device) and philosophically, I would rather the internet get away from ads everywhere and I’ll help that happen if I can. It helps that $10 is worth the many hours of use I g…

I have no problem paying for things. I like paying for things.

Well, I like paying for value to be delivered. I don't like paying for "stop messing with me."

The path from gratis to paid to paid-at-a-higher-tier should be "yeah, I like this, I want more of it, and I'm willing to pay for it". YouTube would have to have a lot fewer dark patterns for me to say "yeah, I want more of this".

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