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Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

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141–150 of 206 posts

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#141

Silly question: Does it matter that they have visible rust? If the performance is the same and it’s just a veneer with no effect on ability, who gives a damn? I had a CO who once told me: “I trust the guy who’s got mud on his boots vs the one whose shoes are always spit shined.”

A little bit of rust grows and propagates in a cascading effect, as anyone who has had rust on a car can attest.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#142

Silly question: Does it matter that they have visible rust? If the performance is the same and it’s just a veneer with no effect on ability, who gives a damn? I had a CO who once told me: “I trust the guy who’s got mud on his boots vs the one whose shoes are always spit shined.”

You'll notice the reference to "deterrence" and "you have to look like you mean business". If your ships are rusty on the outside, do the weapons work on the inside?

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there have been budget cuts, the US Navy’s budget went from ~80B in 2001 to over 160B today. Given what the US spends as a % of GDP, it feels like this should be more than enough. From afar, the problem appears to be decision makers in the Navy refusing to reduce scope and deciding to understaff.

I think that’s not keeping up with inflation over the same period?

To reply to those saying CPI inflation is up 60% over the period: S&P500 is a better measure of inflation, up 3x over the period, so navy budget roughly keeping pace.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. Surface ships are now just sitting ducks. Does the US have more carriers under construction? You need carriers to launch planes, but I guess the future could be quadcopter drones launched from subs?

The concept of "carriers" might change as they start to carry smaller unmanned planes - quadcopters tend to be at a disadvantage to fixed wing drones when longer ranges and longer loiter times are required. The solution to ship-killer weapons is decentralization, replacing a single juicy target with many dispersed targets. A Predator or Bayraktar sized drone designed for naval operations could be launched from a "dro…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjUdVxJH6yI

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#145

" If crews can’t use new types of paint, If crews are restricted from using OSPHO (a mild acid used to clean up rust stains) in port or bosuns chairs over the side if we don’t have enough supply ships or crew on those supply ships if crews are committing suicide and arson because of conditions at shipyards tasked with painting old ships if the Navy doesn’t seek out the advice of commercial professionals at companies…

> Shell if the Army and Air Force continue to get all the attention in Ukraine

This is a great point that I started thinking about 2-3 days ago, i.e. that the present war in Ukraine is, almost by definition, a continental war (think Napoleon or the Eastern Campaign in WW2), and, as such, that an organisation like the US Navy might feel like it has been left out (like this quote actually emphasises). At which point it gets tricky when it comes to justify your budget, as in: "why should we assign so much money to the Navy when we're most worried about a continental war?".

The "solution" that I saw in my head for this dilemma (from the POV of the Navy) was a re-emphasis on Taiwan and on China, i.e. trying to bring forward (again) the danger that the Chinese pose to Taiwan and to SE-Asia more generally speaking. That's a lot of sea/ocean for the Navy to cover and protect.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#146

The Navy builds its ships with steel, and the grades of steel used in the construction can experience rust. Solutions: Switch to 100% stainless steel. Stainless steel is an alloy and contains a minimum of 11% chromium. This allows the formation of a protective film of chromium oxide which acts as a shield against rust. The protective film will re-form if damaged. Corrosion resistance can be further enhanced with the…

You can’t just replace a material like that in something as large as a ship.

You need to have the right toughness, ductility, fatigue, etc.

Steel varies a lot. You can buy a 1000 page book that just lists different steels, along with their material properties.

Saying “just use stainless” is kinda like saying “just 3d print it” or “just make it out of carbon fiber”

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#147
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if there's a name for this phenomenon, but it's sort of like an invisible Chesterton's fence. "Just make them out of a different steel" feels like a idea that is elegant, but even as someone that's never built a ship, I have to imagine there's some good reason why they're built out the materials they are, and why a simple material change is unlikely to be a solution. Maybe I'm wrong (it's not like organi…

Stainless doesn’t really hold up in saltwater, with the exception of a few grades. The material properties (toughness, ductility, brittleness, weldability) can also be significantly different than non stainless. Corten can work in less aggressive environments, but it has been known to fail to provide the expected protection in places with more acidic rain than was expected. Salt water is really aggressive. Hot dip ga…

There are many sacrificial zincs on ships, including in tanks.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#149
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s bad logic Is it so far stretched to say that a person who is in good shape, takes proper care about his hygiene and stuff like hair/beard might be a more self disciplined and organized person compared to someone that is lazy about his hygiene, physical condition and appearance?

That "logic" could also be reversed just as easily. Someone with poor professional skills might feel more pressure to compensate by "looking sharp". Neither is actually "logic" but just post hoc justification of bias that generalizes a subset of cases without any data on their prevalence when in reality, that prevalence is highly contextual. In my experience, some people place a high priority and gain significant ple…

> Someone with poor professional skills might feel more pressure to compensate by "looking sharp".

To look sharp and fit you HAVE to be disciplined. That's a fact. Yours, is a speculation. That is a difference.

Notice that I have never said that being a disciplined individual, which is a fact for who takes lots of care about himself implies a better professional, or a more self disciplined worker.

That being said, imho, there is a correlation between those things. If someone has good self discipline often he can probably translate this at a place of work or study.

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