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UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

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Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> creepy undemocratic bureaucracy of the EU > need for control and action on a local level Ah you mean that local control and democracy when the party with 13% of the votes gets 0.2% seats in the parliament", right? [1] [1] Great CGP Grey video on the 2015 General Election in the UK: https://youtu.be/r9rGX91rq5I

I haven't got time for a deep-dive into statistics or methods of representation right now, which clearly need improving. The fact of the matter is that more people in the UK voted to leave the EU than even bothered to vote in the election of EU representatives in the election before. The EU failed to make a case for the importance of its democratic process, and rested content in its level of power existing despite th…

> which clearly need improving.

Indeed, they do. So you really have no right to point fingers at "non-democratic EU bureaucracy" when at worst it's the same system as in the UK.

> The EU failed to make a case for the importance of its democratic process

You realise that the UK was in the EU? That it was one of its founding members? That the perceived failure to do anything about this process is shared by the UK as well?

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#143

This is rad. > Alongside the consistent output from its solar panels and wind turbines, an onsite 20GWh/5GW battery facility provide sufficient storage to reliably deliver each and every day Four hour battery storage for renewables. The way of the future. > This “first of a kind” project will generate 10.5GW of zero carbon electricity from the sun and wind to deliver 3.6GW of reliable energy for an average of 20+ hou…

No post body was provided.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#144
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Securing Britain's energy supply by diversifying from EU interconnectors" Also, it's kind of funny how you say it has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit and immediately jump into an anti-EU rant, probably not the smoothest transition :D

Not sure about the description of the region, but UK legitimizes Morocco's position in land disputes to undermine EU seems a possibility to me.

Can you expand on the EU's stake in Moroccan border disputes? I'm aware of the West Sahara / SADR situation, but my impression is that the EU has little legitimate stake in that dispute except for their desire to fish in those waters. And Europe seems willing to deal with Morocco for permission to do that.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#146

I find liquefied Hydrogen to make more sense. In case of conflict (like now), undersea cables can be sabotaged with plausible deniability. The Royal Navy can protect a tanker en route from Morocco to UK, or a convoy of such tankers, there were two times in the not so distant history when it had to do just that. But how do you protect a continuous line of a few thousand km? Separately, if at some random point in the f…

> But how do you protect a continuous line of a few thousand km?

Cameras/sensors, and fast response time. You could put a sensor package every couple km. Given the amount of power this installation delivers, it wouldn't exactly break the bank.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#147
post #118
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop being so adverserial. Parent hasn't stated any pro-brexit sentiment so just assume they're arguing in good faith. The whole idea of the EU is that all nations in it are subservient to the commission. We like it that way because that makes the collaboration more rational and it makes the rising tide lift all the boats. Wether you agree with it or not, the idea of the Brexit is that the UK can be strong without th…

> The whole idea of the EU is that all nations in it are subservient to the commission It really really isn't though

Then it's even more useless than being an auditor at the commission

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't got time for a deep-dive into statistics or methods of representation right now, which clearly need improving. The fact of the matter is that more people in the UK voted to leave the EU than even bothered to vote in the election of EU representatives in the election before. The EU failed to make a case for the importance of its democratic process, and rested content in its level of power existing despite th…

> which clearly need improving. Indeed, they do. So you really have no right to point fingers at "non-democratic EU bureaucracy" when at worst it's the same system as in the UK. > The EU failed to make a case for the importance of its democratic process You realise that the UK was in the EU? That it was one of its founding members? That the perceived failure to do anything about this process is shared by the UK as we…

The UK wasn't a founding member of the EU, but I see your point. Regardless of the UK's role, I feel that many in the UK regard it's parliament as the highest authority in law- and decision-making. Any body resting higher than that is going to face difficulty when attempting to claim greater and greater control over laws, and running them from "far away" even if that far away place was Brussels. The UK also wasn't part of the Euro, and so one of the main benefits of EU membership and coherence was missing. There was also a general feeling amongst the working classes that the low-wage sector was being undermined by labour coming in freely from abroad, mainly eastern Europe, and this wasn't reciprocal, i.e. they couldn't go to eastern Europe, or basically anywhere else in Europe, and get the same benefit from doing so.

P.s. a broken and undemocratic or unrepresentative bureaucracy is not going to be solved or fixed by adding higher levels of beuraucracy.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#149
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not true. The UK doesn't have the force projection capability to do that to Morocco, which is a US ally. The UK would get hammered in an attempt to terrorise Morocco. The only remotely conceivable way that the UK would have of projecting significant power onto the Moroccan mainland is by trying to foment a civil war. Otherwise they would not get anything out of it. If the US even allowed the UK to do such a f…

This is false. Not that it matters to the wider argument but UK has plenty of power projection capabilities to mount an offensive in Morocco. Morocco is even within reasonable distance for the UK to run sorties from UK air bases, let alone including aircraft carriers, cruise missile attacks from submarines, etc.

It really isn't. The UK has very little in the way of power projection. Sure they could lob a few bombs and fire a few cruise missiles, that's not going to make the Moroccan government turn on solar power. All it will do is make them and the Moroccan people very, very angry.

If you want to take a country's resources by force, there is no option short of a ground campaign. Without a civil war in Morocco (that the UK couldn't make happen even if they tried), there is no way for them to put boots on the ground. The only way would be to cut a deal with Algeria or Mauritania for a ground invasion (not happening!), or to stage some kind of amphibious landing.

I thought that by now people would have understood that you can't win a war through air power only.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#150
post #97

Oh, nice, so in case of wars a cheap submarine can just put a small and cheap charge deep in the sea and boom, 10GWp power are out of the UK national grid. How nice. My fellow humans remember a thing: a national grid is not national because of politics but because a such critical part of a country infra it's better to be self-sufficient under nation borders and hopefully self-sufficient inside those borders even in c…

This goes for all infrastructure. Destroying it is much easier than making it. But that 'cheap' submarine won't be as cheap as you think it is and it still has to do it undetected and it has to achieve some kind of objective. It also immediately gets two countries pissed off at you, one of which is in NATO and may well see an attack on its infrastructure as an overt act of war.

So you better think this over long and hard before sending your cheap submarine down there.

Personally I'd be much more concerned about the kind of damage marine life, fishing and cargo ships would do to that cable and how to armor against that. Probably by the time you've taken all that into account you have also defended against that sub. And finally, the same thing of course goes for all of those other undersea cables, communications ones for instance.

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