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Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

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Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#141

Post by ComradePhil »

skrebbel wrote: post #139
ComradePhil wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One doesn't have to ditch all "western food". Just being sensible with it is good enough: - ditch plant fat for animal fat - avoid excessive sugar - eat real food (no fake milk, meat etc.) - stop eating vegetables, specially raw vegetables Food is one of those things I take an ultra conservative stance on. The food industry has made eating literal poison (plant seeds, plant oils, spinach, brussel sprouts etc.) seem h…

Stop eating vegetables? Tbf i can't figure out whether you're trolling or not.

Definitely not trolling. If you don't know how to prepare vegetables in indegenous culture that you got it from, you are better off not eating it.

Also, even if you did follow indegenous preparation methods, the food industry may have changed the plant by artificial selection or genetic modification such that the indegenous preparation is not as effective, so you're better off ditching them anyway.

Vegetables have significant phytotoxin content without significant nutrient content, specially in forms bioavailable to us (eg. a lot of carotinoids in carrots, except we are terrible at converting that to Vitamin A... we need the retinol form, readily available in milk, eggs, fish, meat etc.).

Plants are living beings and don't want to be eaten. They can't fight or flight so their defense is toxins. We have domesticated some of the plants and learnt how to remove those toxins over thousands of years... but if you don't know how to do that effectively, you're better off not eating them.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#142

Post by daverol »

kgc wrote: post #115
gumby wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. My Indian grandparents and g-grandparents appeared to have most or all of their teeth, and were a long lived bunch (all but one into their 90s). I can’t say conclusively all but I never noticed any gaps or problems, which is the kind of thing kids notice. The g-grandparents would all have been born in the 19th century. My Australian grandmother had all her teeth pulled out when she was 12 and wore artifi…

Why pulled?

Many accounts sat the in the UK in the early 20th century dentistry was still so expensive that some people chose to have all their teeth pulled to spare themselves a lifetime of pain. Having all your teeth removed was considered the perfect gift for a 21st birthday or a newly married bride. My mother-in-law had her teeth out under this practice.

The foundation of the NHS in 1948 made dental care affordable for all and in the first nine months four million cavities were filled and queues formed outside surgeries.

see: https://bda.org/museum/exhibitions-and-events/nhs70-celebrat...

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#143

Post by jwarden »

dotancohen wrote: post #137
mostertoaster wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is absolute fiction presented as facts. If HN had a way to killfile a user this user would be first on my list. This type of misinformation has no place on HN.

I read that as a joke, even if not a very clever one.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#144

Post by jkepler »

asdff wrote: post #101
wyager wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just sugar - any carbohydrate which a bacterium can easily metabolize to sugar (i.e. most of them) is a hazard. Grains, tubers, etc. are all dangerous from a dental perspective and have only been consumed in calorically significant quantities after the advent of agriculture.

They are only dangerous if you don't brush or floss. With respect to ancient cultures a little twig is a damn effective dental cleaner and about as good as a modern toothbrush.

Growing up, my dad often said that raw carrots are "nature's toothbrush" and he would encourage us to end any picnic lunch with carrot sticks, not with a sugary dessert. Can carrot sticks function like a little twig in terms of knocking undesirable food gunk off teeth?

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#145

Post by winrid »

dotancohen wrote: post #137
mostertoaster wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is absolute fiction presented as facts. If HN had a way to killfile a user this user would be first on my list. This type of misinformation has no place on HN.

I think it was a joke...

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#146

Post by manmal »

ComradePhil wrote: post #138
taurusnoises wrote: post #74

Weston A Price is really the go-to for the early research in nutrition and dentistry. His book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration was making the rounds back when Nourishing Traditions became popular. Price, conclusively in my mind, showed that the moment the modern western was introduced into cultures who ate traditional foods, the next generation had terrible teeth, jaws that were too small for all their teeth, etc…

One doesn't have to ditch all "western food". Just being sensible with it is good enough: - ditch plant fat for animal fat - avoid excessive sugar - eat real food (no fake milk, meat etc.) - stop eating vegetables, specially raw vegetables Food is one of those things I take an ultra conservative stance on. The food industry has made eating literal poison (plant seeds, plant oils, spinach, brussel sprouts etc.) seem h…

You seem to be a glowing fan of carnivore diets, is that right? What do you think about the sustainability of this lifestyle? I’m pretty sure our planet can’t sustain 9 billion exclusively meat eating humans.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#147

Post by skrbjc »

philliphaydon wrote: post #95
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's strong evidence. Fluoridation as public health policy modernly was partly driven by evidence from Colorado Springs, where naturally higher than typical fluoride levels caused better than average dental outcomes. To respond to a sibling comment: the relative levels have been looked at, in detail, and existing policy reflects what we've learned from that. Scaremongering over it influences real negative health o…

Isn’t the natural occurring fluoride Calcium fluoride while what we put in tooth paste (and add to water) is sodium fluoride which in addition to helping with our teeth is technically poisonous in large doses which is why we spit out tooth paste and don’t give children fluoride tooth paste until they learn to spit?

You can have too much fluoride in your diet and from toothpaste that it causes white streaks on your teeth and potentially on your bones. It’s called fluorosis.

This typically happens with teeth when young children drink fluoridated water, and also drink formula, which has fluoride, mixed with municipal fluoridated water. Or if the well water of an area has too much fluoride.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#148

Post by nlitened »

asdff wrote: post #106

Because brushing/flossing/scraping the teeth with a stick is a learned behavior that even today isn't fully learned by our species.

I wonder if human-like apes brush or floss? Do they drink naturally-occurring fluorinated water from wells? And I’d love to have some insights on their cavities and pulled teeth statistics.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#149

Post by ComradePhil »

manmal wrote: post #146
ComradePhil wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One doesn't have to ditch all "western food". Just being sensible with it is good enough: - ditch plant fat for animal fat - avoid excessive sugar - eat real food (no fake milk, meat etc.) - stop eating vegetables, specially raw vegetables Food is one of those things I take an ultra conservative stance on. The food industry has made eating literal poison (plant seeds, plant oils, spinach, brussel sprouts etc.) seem h…

You seem to be a glowing fan of carnivore diets, is that right? What do you think about the sustainability of this lifestyle? I’m pretty sure our planet can’t sustain 9 billion exclusively meat eating humans.

No, not a fan of the carnivore diet (except for short term use for medical purposes). Getting rid of grains puts us in very high risk, grains are essential because they are easy to store long-term... Even though they are plant seeds, the most toxic part of a plant, we have mastered indegenous preparation of grains... and while the food industry has tried to ruin it, it hasn't succeeded by much... mostly because grains are perfect, even for the food industry.

I believe that indigenous vegetarian diets, such as the traditional Indian vegetarian diet, before ghee was replaced by industrially produced seed oil, is one good option... as is foods like Sushi, where you combine fish/meat with grains.

Re: Why didn't our ancient ancestors get cavities?

#150

Post by dharma1 »

ComradePhil wrote: post #141
skrebbel wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop eating vegetables? Tbf i can't figure out whether you're trolling or not.

Definitely not trolling. If you don't know how to prepare vegetables in indegenous culture that you got it from, you are better off not eating it. Also, even if you did follow indegenous preparation methods, the food industry may have changed the plant by artificial selection or genetic modification such that the indegenous preparation is not as effective, so you're better off ditching them anyway. Vegetables have si…

Fruit definitely evolved to be eaten (this is how the seeds spread)
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