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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#141

Anecdotally I have seen this in person at a large tech startup. The recruiting team was all women, mainly white, and they were incredibly cliquey. Every hire was a woman. Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side. I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.

"Your margin is my opportunity." Is this behavior significantly reducing the startup's competitiveness? If so, this should be exploitable by a competitor. Assuming you don't have the bandwidth to directly work for or advise a competitor of this type, you might still be able to benefit as an investor. If not... I have a hard time getting worked up about this. It's contrary to the dominant narrative, but if this female…

So if a blatantly sexist organization that deliberately only hired me is still doing okay, that's not a problem?

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#142
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> intelligence distribution skews more male at the higher end Really? You think there are inherently more intelligent men than women?

> Really? You think there are inherently more intelligent men than women? Uh, yes. This is a well-established fact. Women have two X chromosomes, both of which get used [1], and men only have one. So this should be your baseline expectation. In women, that genetic information used to construct the brain, gets, loosely speaking, averaged together. It is of course also consistent with every empirical observation. E.g.…

Sorry but that's pseudo-scientific bollocks. Far from being "well-established fact" it is actually contentious and poorly supported by the evidence.

Intelligence testing is a human created concept. There are all manner of cultural biases encoded in it. Intelligence is more than just being good at sums which is what your math SAT example seems to suggest.

Jeopardy champions are hardly a representative group. They're a self-selecting group by definition : those who chose to go on a quiz show. Maybe men show a bias towards showing off on TV or are better at remembering random facts. Your example doesn't control for any of those.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#143
post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

As I have gotten older, my pay has continued to increase. "Over qualified" means that I want too much money . (I don't apologize for that. I bring more value than I did 20 years ago. Either you have a use for that - enough of a use that you're willing to pay for it - or you don't.) Also, if you've got someone with 20 years experience, and they're willing to accept the same pay as someone with 5 years experience... ar…

I’m somewhat sympathetic toward your POV, but the average tenure in this industry is like 1.5 years or something like that. It’s not like young people stick around for a long time, and I would wager that older people are more likely to stick with a company (the older people I know are more likely to talk about “company loyalty” than my age cohort).

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#144
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a privileged take that only works for people who have options to shop around for jobs.

I'm not employed. Not shopping for jobs either. By the way, I'm available to assist whoever is a victim of these shitty extremist behavior. And I can do and say whatever I want. Everything I do is my responsibility and my property. Not my employer's, because I chose to not have one.

> I'm not employed. Not shopping for jobs either.

Wait, isn't this the exact definition of privilege?

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#145
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my observation as well. Most women don't want to be hired on account of some eng diversity target. It gets really toxic when a company is simultaneously engaging in this kind of discrimination while also harshly cracking down on anyone who points it out. In 2015 I worked at Dropbox when DEI discrimination was ramping up. Among other things, we only interviewed boot camp grads if they were diverse. We also hav…

In general it’s also a problem with what is considered diverse. If you’re a white man from a poor family with no college education, the policy is to explicitly discriminate against you. If you’re a white woman from an upper middle class background, you’re considered diverse and given advantages despite the fact that you could have gone into any field you wanted, could probably afford to switch on a whim, and don’t ha…

No post body was provided.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#146
post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

I'm almost 50. I've been working in tech since 1996, and at this point, despite being a strong and seasoned engineer, I'm getting comments like, "it's different now", or "back in your day", etc, and the very young engineers fresh from school are the ones throwing this around. Those with a few years of experience under their belt don't. It's really disheartening, but it's also my job to train these bozos and turn them…

I hope these people are in the minority. I'm 21, I have my first internship coming up in the summer, and I am ecstatic to learn from engineers more experienced than me, no matter what age.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#147
A few workplaces ago the company was hiring from a recruiter instructed with bringing only female or non white people.

When I opposed that I was pointed to the actual UK law for positive discrimination which explicitly allow discrimination.

I never had faith in society, but I had no idea we fell so low.

I think most western countries are completely lost and will never get back. With woke activists controlling big tech, universities and the press, there is truly no hope for western countries.

I moved to a country where society is a bit backward for modern standards and I'll look into moving again once they catch up with the modern world.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#148
post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

If a 70 year old wants to churn out the same amount/quality of React code I get from everyone else on my team, I really couldn't care less

When it comes to more senior roles, it may not only be ageism, but naturally there are much less open positions and many more people down the pyramid fighting for them

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#149
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like they purposefully created people now dependent on these government programs in order to secure electorate.

No, it's more complex than that. Racism in large portions of the united states still exists today. Individuals are not given opportunites in the u.s. simply because of something as simple as their last name. While people may base on DEI initiatives in the majority of America in non large corporate and even on those companies they are still refused if any opportunities which add on each other resulting in inequality.

I don't understand how anything of what you wrote (which, BTW, I agree with) contradicts my point.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#150

This comment section is gonna be a RIDE... To actually comment on the topic at hand: the reason there's still male-dominated spaces is that women are weeded out far earlier than the hiring stage. See, for example, statistics about women in STEM and especially computer science and realize that hiring managers don't even have to be sexist for male-dominated fields to exist, even though they still are.

The assumption in the "weeded out" rhetoric is that girls are on their way into tech in equal numbers and diverted out by some experience or more nefarious dissuasion. This has not been sufficiently demonstrated and usually is presented without evidence.

It's unclear what people make of the fact that certain STEM disciplines, say Biology or other Life Sciences, have an over-representation of women. Curious why the "weeding" only occurs in certain STEM disciplines.

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