Jobs loved what he did and believed in it. RMS certainly is same.
I respect Jobs for `the inspiration` while I respect RMS for what `he offered to the world`.
Time to fork the FSF
141–150 of 340 posts
Re: Time to fork the FSF
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
He already does. The only difference in the perceived quality is the learning curve. Learn the *nix way and you will be enlightened. Learn the Apple way and you will remain ignorant (but have lots of time for shopping, cos math is so boring, right?).
I love the Apple way. Gave me lots of extra time to pursue other interests. Remember, you rely on a lot of people who aren't good at computers but have other skills.
>Gave me lots of extra time to pursue other interests.
Honestly, I don't get this argument. I set a Linux installation up once, configure it how I like it, which takes a day or two in total, then I'm set for a few years. The administration on my system consists of running "pacman -Syu" every month or so then rebooting the system. So that's what, ~40 hours (high estimate at 1 hour per update to account for Murphy's Law + two 8 hour days) worth of work for having a streamlined workflow for 3 years. By making the system more efficient and tailored to my needs, I save much more time by not having to do repetitive things. It's that whole deal about working smarter, not harder; or thinking about the long, not short term.
I suppose that the argument makes sense from the perspective of the initial time investment to get over the learning curve, which, admittedly, is huge, but then there are real benefits to understanding the system that come with it. The learning curves of English and Math are even bigger but we don't complain about those since they let us perform essential tasks - just like computers do. Why the difference in approach?
Going off on a tangent - personally, I think that it's important to understand any system that one works with, whether it's a computer, one's own body and mind, a bicycle, society, family or a particle accelerator. I certainly don't fault anyone for not wanting to do the same but the benefits to truly understanding the world around us are huge.
Re: Time to fork the FSF
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue is not at all with his opinion. It is that he expressed it in a horrendously, gratuitously crass and offensive way. Here is a transliteration into humane language of what he said: "My heart goes out to Steve Jobs' family in their time of grief. And my heart also goes to the millions of people who looked up to him as an icon and inspiration. But we need to not get so carried away honoring the dead that we fo…
>horrendously, gratuitously crass and offensive way. And? It's rms. He's the biggest nerd in the world. Nerds are expected to be horrendously, gratuitously crass, offensive and insensitive of people's emotions. This is like being mad that the sky is blue. Pointless outrage.
Agreed. Stating that a big nerd is one of the worst candidates for spokesperson of a good cause is similarly pointless.
Yet somehow he still continues to be just that.
Re: Time to fork the FSF
#144I have never heard of Larry, so my guess would be: chance that Larry will found and lead the FFSF (Forked Free Software Foundation) = 0%
Re: Time to fork the FSF
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
The post in question makes no mention of FOSS exclusively resulting in better software than FOSS + non-FOSS. Are you just debating Stallman's generic platform here? Seems a bit off-topic to me...
RMS is glad Jobs is gone. This means he thinks Jobs' non-FOSS is a net negative for the world. [edit of first sentence for clarity]
Which is perfectly in line with pretty much all of his life and advocacy: for RMS, user potential freedom (to much around with the internals of his device, software and hardware) trumps everything.
Therefore, as somebody making locked-down everything and locked-down everything cool Jobs was a nemesis figure. It makes perfect sense for Stallman to be glad he retired from current affairs, that Jobs had to retire due to death does not really enter in his thinking because as far as he's concerned it's a completely separate issue.
Those demonizing him for his comments are just idiots.
Re: Time to fork the FSF
#146I support open source on a pragmatic level as a way for people to share code so that they no longer have to "re-invent the wheel". Because of this I feel like it's petty and counter-productive for the FSF to refuse to share their "free" software with people because of the way that those people want to use the software. Truly free software should be released to the public without limitations on how and where it should be used.
To clarify: I know that my preferred model ignores the scummy/greedy tendencies of people to leech off work that others have done. However, I'd like for people to think of open source software as a gift given with no strings attached.
Re: Time to fork the FSF
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
The RMS posting is hardly "horrendously, gratuitously crass and offensive".
No, it is completely distasteful, and representative of actions that caused me to slowly change from being an FSF associate member to believing that FSF is a threat to free software rather than an asset. Of course, RMS is not speaking for the FSF here, but there in recent years there is a history of missteps (Emacs virgins) and childish campaigns (Windows 7 sinds, Bad Vista, etc.) associated with the FSF. It seems th…
You've got to be reading a different RMS posting from the one I'm reading. It's certainly not "completely distasteful". As for the rest of your reply, I don't see how it relates to this.
For reference, this is the RMS posting I'm reading:
http://stallman.org/archives/2011-jul-oct.html#06_October_20...
Re: Time to fork the FSF
#148He has no taste at all.
Re: Time to fork the FSF
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue is not at all with his opinion. It is that he expressed it in a horrendously, gratuitously crass and offensive way. Here is a transliteration into humane language of what he said: "My heart goes out to Steve Jobs' family in their time of grief. And my heart also goes to the millions of people who looked up to him as an icon and inspiration. But we need to not get so carried away honoring the dead that we fo…
>Maybe RMS sees a subtle distinction between death and gone-ness in his head. But I promise you that people in grief see absolutely no distinction between the death and the loss of the person they mourn. It is not legitimate for the mass of HN to be "in grief" because of Steve Jobs's death. You may be sad, but certainly no grieving period should be necessary for strangers. Stallman was not overtly disrespectful imo,…
He could have made that statement when Jobs stepped down but chose to do it after he died, so I'm assuming that he made no such distinction.
That said, I do agree that walled gardens are bad but there are more effective ways of delivering that message, to use someones death and name recognition to further your agenda is not in good taste.
Re: Time to fork the FSF
#150I think RMS is doing perfect trolling to get more attention to his GNU/FSF/commie stuff.
The net effect is the people talking about RMS, about FSF and GNU. More people get to know about this stuff, more people get involved.
Just a little trolling replaces zillions of bucks spent on advertising, PR etc. Commies don't have money to pay, so they must troll.
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Just don't spread this hype and don't feed the troll.