Live data from Hacker News

Twilio employees, associates charged with insider trading by SEC

sec.gov

141–150 of 302 posts

Re: Twilio employees, associates charged with insider trading by SEC

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on your definition of the problem. The problem I would like to solve is ensuring that everyone perceives the market as fair, i.e., not tilted toward parties with access to privileged information.

> not tilted toward parties with access to privileged information. With the exception of Congress of course. Reverse insider trading is also fine, you can announce buybacks right before a preplanned stock sale. It would be simpler to say if you aren't friends with someone invited to Epstein island you aren't allowed to insider trade but the plebs would get uppity.

> With the exception of Congress of course.

Banning Congress from making stock trades has broad bipartisan support[1]. Absent any evidence that the person you're responding to doesn't support a Congressional ban, it's probably safe to assume that they do.

[1]: https://thehill.com/homenews/news/588630-76-percent-of-voter...

Re: Twilio employees, associates charged with insider trading by SEC

#142
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This implies a truly bizarre understanding of markets and fairness. Was it fair when Enron was valued at $70B? Would the situation have been less fair had insider traders with more information pushed the prices down earlier? Insider trading doesn’t cost anybody anything, it simply allows for more accurate pricing which benefits everybody.

So, if I were a trader at Enron who made good money trading electricity and gas then used that money to short the stock based on private information, I'd be doing everyone a service and fighting for fairness. Better yet, I could be one of their auditors at Arthur Andersen.

I think the point that they're making is that there wouldn't be a large opportunity to short Enron if people were insider trading from the very beginning. The price of the stock would be more accurate from the beginning, because people would trade at the first sign of an opportunity to benefit from insider information.

Re: Twilio employees, associates charged with insider trading by SEC

#143
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Insider trading doesn’t cost anybody anything, it simply allows for more accurate pricing which benefits everybody. Insider trading has an institutional cost: it's corrosive to trust in the market. Retail investors are less likely to make optimal investment decisions if they think that insiders are lurking around every corner. That trust is further diminished if retail investors believe that insiders are not just i…

> Retail investors are less likely to make optimal investment decisions if they think that insiders are lurking around every corner. But the reality is that there are insiders lurking around every corner. The argument is essentially that we should seek to actively mislead retail investors instead of simply acknowledging this fact. To me that feels dishonest.

I think it would be dishonest to do so actively, which is why I try to acknowledge that the SEC's current ability to enforce insider trading laws is relatively weak and ineffective.

I think it's my civic duty to not only inform others of that fact, but also to advocate for better enforcement.

Re: Twilio employees, associates charged with insider trading by SEC

#144
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This implies a truly bizarre understanding of markets and fairness. Was it fair when Enron was valued at $70B? Would the situation have been less fair had insider traders with more information pushed the prices down earlier? Insider trading doesn’t cost anybody anything, it simply allows for more accurate pricing which benefits everybody.

If insider trading is legal, you could actively destroy a company from the inside and profit from its downfall. Like you could buy put options to set up a leveraged short position, take all the company's money, set it on fire in public(or make a stupid acquisition so you can't easily be sued by other shareholders), watch the stock price drop in a predictable manner, and profit from the predictable decrease in equity.…

> If insider trading is legal, you could actively destroy a company from the inside and profit from its downfall.

What you are describing is an entirely different kind of misconduct than “insider trading”.

Re: Twilio employees, associates charged with insider trading by SEC

#145
post #8

What a lame way to insider trade. I thought that instance of the Capital One analysts using internal database queries to understand which retailers were having good quarters was far more interesting and insidious. Similarly you could imagine a lot more subtle ways to leverage insider Twilio information (count of verification texts sent by client?) to make far more obscure bets. The SEC definitely takes a look at anyo…

sounds like they went back to China and got new jobs. https://www.crunchbase.com/person/bonan-huang

Re: Twilio employees, associates charged with insider trading by SEC

#146
post #85
post #2

I can’t understand the rationale behind blowing up your life and career in which you made $300k+/year for a tiny $1m gain split between 3 people and their families. Why are people who should otherwise be much smarter than this doing incredibly dumb things? Just greed? and entitlement?

This is a total guess, but based on the fact that all the perps names are Indian, there is a chance that they are immigrants who are either not aware of the law or the serious consequences involved if you get caught. If they're convicted this will almost certainly affect their immigration status and likely get them deported too. Not excusing what they did at all, but it should be noted that the judicial systems in In…

Publicly traded companies make office employees periodically (usually annually) go through a corporate anti-corruption training course covering inappropriate gifts and insider trading.

If these fellas were smart enough to be hired at Twilio, claiming ignorance is beyond ridiculous.

If somehow twilio decided to skip all these trainings, twilio can be held liable and sued by their employees who get in trouble. Do you think their savvy legal team (c'mon, it's in Telco space, they have a legal army) could be that dumb? Having been present during an IPO and working for publicly traded companies, I can confidently say "No, not a chance".

Re: Twilio employees, associates charged with insider trading by SEC

#147
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Retail investors are less likely to make optimal investment decisions if they think that insiders are lurking around every corner. But the reality is that there are insiders lurking around every corner. The argument is essentially that we should seek to actively mislead retail investors instead of simply acknowledging this fact. To me that feels dishonest.

I think it would be dishonest to do so actively, which is why I try to acknowledge that the SEC's current ability to enforce insider trading laws is relatively weak and ineffective. I think it's my civic duty to not only inform others of that fact, but also to advocate for better enforcement.

Good enforcement is impossible. You can never meaningfully hinder insider trading, far too many people have access to insider information. They don’t have to make the trades themselves either.

> I think it would be dishonest to do so actively

That is what the government is doing via legislation.

Re: Twilio employees, associates charged with insider trading by SEC

#148
post #57

I work in billing software for a publicly traded software company and this is a constant temptation. I'm never gonna do it because I'm not gonna blow up my career for a relative pittance, but I can't tell you how many times I've been annoyed that I couldn't act on private information and make ~$100k or so. These guys are like the kids who saw the Tide Pod challenges and decided to actually eat the pods. I bet insider…

>I bet insider trading is not as fun when you're unemployed and bankrupt. Not just unemployed, likely unemployable by any reputable company in the industry. Also, good on you for having integrity, but honestly what you say is too much for the average person to be tempted with. Does anyone have a solution for lowering that temptation and making these scenarios less likely?

[deleted]

Re: Twilio employees, associates charged with insider trading by SEC

#149
Not a sympathizer of these idiots who clearly thought that would get away. But what really astonishes me is how SEC is consistently after these retail small players when members of congress and its different committees are brazenly involved in insider trading and no one bats an eye. Hell even the Fed itself and its members were involved in trades that could only be explained by insider knowledge.

My sense is SEC wants to send the message it is OK if big players do it but small players beware.

Re: Twilio employees, associates charged with insider trading by SEC

#150
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it commonly is. One example is mandatory reporters. For some licensed professions, it is a thought crime to merely have the thought that you suspect a child meets some criteria of neglect/abuse, while not performing any action to relay the thought to authorities. This can lead to unwarranted and damaging/traumatic CPS investigations merely so a professional can cover their ass.

This can also lead to highly warranted investigations, given that actual abuse is incredibly common.

CPS investigators asking non-abused children traumatizing questions (sometimes after being independently detained) and the associated investigation into the family, only reported as CYA to stay in compliance with mandatory reporter laws, is child abuse performed by CPS. CPS themselves are often the child abusers in this fashion, and this law allows them to abuse more children.

>This can also lead to highly warranted investigations, given that actual abuse is incredibly common.

Or possibly not. It could drive anyone who suspects a professional may attribute (correctly or not) some circumstance as abuse, to merely completely avoid letting their family see any professionals. These laws degrade trust even further between professionals and those seeking them, reducing access to care. Instead of an aid, a therapist or doctor is seen as a threat so dangerous as to risk breaking apart your family at any time. Avoidance at seeking professional services may decrease warranted investigations rather than increase them.

Anyone familiar with substance abuse patient care understands how mandatory reporting frequently endangers children: many drug-addicted women birth outside the hospital system so they can keep their children (mandatory reporter laws encourage them to avoid safer birth environment).

But of course I don't doubt compelling people to say their thoughts out loud to authorities could lead to more 'warranted investigations' at a dystopic cost. As with many laws written so _someone will think of the children_, there is some factual basis that additional warranted investigations may be opened as a result of creating these thought crimes. I am of the opinion, though, that criminalizing these thoughts leads more towards "involuntarily report anything that may risk my license, at the cost of traumatizing innocent families" rather than "voluntarily report genuine abuse."

Post reply on HN