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In Praise of Memorization

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Re: In Praise of Memorization

#141
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It substantially comes down to the amount of language practice those students have had over the years, starting from listening to large amounts of varied material (from conversations/books read aloud) as young children, and then from reading a wide variety of material. The kids who read, and read, and read (especially those who have someone discuss with them the meaning and structure of what they are reading, hearing…

>the ability to “memorize” (i.e. learn) I don't disagree with any of what you're saying. But piecing little bits and pieces of things together is seen as a higher-level cognitive trait in most of the cognitive literature, quite distinct as a learning concept from memorization.

My point is that when someone says “the biggest differentiator between the students who scale up quickly and those who scale up a bit more slowly is their aptitude for memorization....” this is a mis-interpretation of the evidence that the “quicker-scaling” students remember facts they read more readily. What actually distinguishes these students is fluency in comprehending and associating material conveyed in writing/speech. Which may vary slightly based on inherent traits but comes down substantially to cumulative past practice listening/reading to complicated language. By high school students have more than a decade of practice, and between the most prepared and least prepared students there is probably something like 10x difference in amount and quality of past practice, most of it outside of school. Some students are barely reading the few assigned novels and textbooks while others are reading multiple (extra-curricular) difficult books per week on a variety of subjects and having extracurricular conversations where they construct and parse complicated arguments, etc. The latter group have a huge advantage.

Students’ skill at specifically remembering lists of atomized trivia (what people often mean when they say “aptitude for memorization”) is not as important, though this is also a trainable skill for anyone who really wants to do it.

Similarly, between the kids who play sports or do other physical activities all the time and have some amount of expert coaching and the kids who only play sports in PE class, there is probably something like a 10x difference in cumulative quantity/quality of past practice. Which ends up making it seem that some students are “athletic” and others aren’t.

And similarly for music, electronics, carpentry, abstract mathematics, cooking, shooter games, or whatever other skills you look at.

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#142
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The biggest differentiator between the students who scale up quickly and those who scale up a bit more slowly is their aptitude for memorization.... >But the students who struggle all struggle for the same reason: they cannot remember at the moment of writing their paper the basic facts that give context or even give meaning to the documents they are to analyze. It sounds like what you're describing isn't about stud…

It substantially comes down to the amount of language practice those students have had over the years, starting from listening to large amounts of varied material (from conversations/books read aloud) as young children, and then from reading a wide variety of material. The kids who read, and read, and read (especially those who have someone discuss with them the meaning and structure of what they are reading, hearing…

I hypothesized that after 3/4 very different languages you start to build a different, more abstract model of linguistics (syntax, phonetics, semantics) that helps absorbing more. Just like music.

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#143

Memorization also forces you to "reduce dimensionality" in the data—find the underlying patterns of correlation and causality that cause the world to be structured the way it is. You can't feasibly fit every single event in the history of every country in the world into your head, but it becomes a lot more feasible once you extract a narrative that explains the data effectively. Memorization implicitly requires learn…

Absolutely, so does external storage (optimized note taking) btw. If you try to cram data on paper in succint way, you'll have to find redundancy, structure which ultimately is easier to store in your mind too.

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#144
For math, when I was in school I tried memorizing all the formulae, and well, my life was miserable. I hated it.

Recently just for fun (I have a job that (perhaps unfortunately) does not require any advanced math), I started taking math MOOCs from top universities. I discovered that, when I looked into how the formulae is derived (starting from elementary math), I find it substantially easier to keep in mind the formulae. Or even if I don't remember the formulae, I know how to derive them.

I now feel like I've understood certain concepts much better, even though if there's a timed test I might end up being worse off than others who memorized. But then again, I'm learning for fun and is not preparing for any test :)

What I'm trying to say is, for math atleast understanding the underlying concepts work better for me, even if at a given point it's beyond your grade.

(Thank goodness MOOCs exist. I should probably donate.)

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#145

This is something I miss from the era when I learned to code: thick books of reference material, designed to be comprehensive. At the time, your compiler was called Superlative Language Number, and you had confidence that as long as you double checked the Number.Subnumber supplement, it would keep working the way the thick stack of paper promised it would. What you memorize here is the table of contents, and approxim…

Yes! I learned a number of languages from O'Reilly books and it is a qualitatively different experience than learning through a bunch of disconnected StackOverflow questions.

Both modes of learning have their place and a combination of a comprehensive overview plus detailed treatments of specific corners gives so much more understanding than either alone.

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#146

Convenience kills. The Art of Memory by F.A. Yates is still a nice read. In the article, the engineers admired by the author were intel ops who were stuck in an airgap and had to use their minds. That's a principle I try to use in life - to some extent deliberately making things hard for myself. As with all exercise, what was impossibly hard becomes commonplace. Part of this discipline is knowing what not to do (yes,…

Speaking of airgaps, here's David Beazley's wonderful classic PyCon talk about using Python as a secret weapon while locked in a secret vault with no internet connection or floppy disks allowed: >David Beazley: Discovering Python - PyCon 2014 >So, what happens when you lock a Python programmer in a secret vault containing 1.5 TBytes of C++ source code and no internet connection? Find out as I describe how I used Pyth…

The speakerdeck and github links are too high-level. I believe a better link to Beazley's talk is, https://speakerdeck.com/pycon2014/discovering-python-by-davi...

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#147
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a good memorization skill must not necessarily mean you come to the right conclusions. Your sources, peers, genetics and a mind that is by nature chaotic, do it's part. For example, having good memory may lead you to become more arrogant. If other people praise you for your skill, you become so confident in your conclusions that you stop questioning them and rather see confirmation in an echo chamb…

A good memory might lead you into evil? Are you being serious?

Of course not. My point was that there are more important parts of the mind that need training. You can't overcome the mind's evolutionary weaknesses in perception of the world and in being in control over its inner workings by having a good memory.

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#148
"Subconsciously, when you learn a piece by heart, its message penetrates deep inside you. It lies at your fingertips, ready for you to make use of it. Many cultures have long understood this. In Islam, people who memorize the entire Koran are given the special title of hafiz, or guardian. "

Mentioning Muslims who learn by heart the Quran as a means to illustrate how memorization makes the message penetrating deep inside us, is something totally wrong. VERY wrong.

There is no single Muslim in the world (and in the history of Islam, including Muhamad himself) who knows the meaning of Quran. One of the obvious reasons you may understand is that a large amount of the Quran vocabulary is not Arabic (even the word "Quran" itself, is not Arabic). Basically you can pick up any random Quranic text and you will not find one single Muslim in the world who knows at least the meaning of certain words. If you read the Islamic resources which explain the Quran, you will find dozens, and sometimes hundreds of explanations for the same text just because some words are not even Arabic. So memorizing the Quran by heart does not help you in anyway to understand its message.

I could have said similar things about other examples you mentioned. But the point of my comment is that between programmers we should stick to programming concepts when we try to explain something instead of picking examples from fields which are beyond our knowledge and which approach is merely a waste of time and confusing at best.

Also do not try to overthink a concept. It's easy to be quickly off-topic.

Re: In Praise of Memorization

#150

Disclaimer: Anecdata. I volunteer tutor high school kids in my local community. Particularly math and history. The biggest differentiator between the students who scale up quickly and those who scale up a bit more slowly is their aptitude for memorization. Recent history curricula and pedagogy in HS has placed an emphasis on “analysis” and “critical thinking.” But the students who struggle all struggle for the same r…

Anecdata plus one. My exact experience tutoring high school kids. Some could totally solve the problem, but the inability to remember the basic facts to start with meant getting the wrong answer, despite an impeccable logic trail. The cost in time to derive basic facts that would have been instantly available had they been memorized also harmed the ability, especially on tests, to get to the end within the time avail…

> The cost in time to derive basic facts that would have been instantly available had they been memorized also harmed the ability, especially on tests, to get to the end within the time available

I can relate to this amazingly well. I'm dyslexic, so I have trouble remembering thing in the correct "sequence" they need to be memorized in. While taking some of my math classes in college, I particularly struggled with finishing statistics exams in the allotted time since a lot of the rules were (for me) difficult to keep straight in my mind. So, I memorized the bare basic "truths" and would basically start each problem from first principles. I knew them well enough to go very quickly, but I still ran out of time in some of the exams.

I wound up with a C in the class, but the professor commented that I probably would have received one of the highest grades in the class if I had taken the time to commit more of the "shortcuts" to memory and actually finished all the exams. Nearly all the points I'd lost on the exams were from incomplete solutions.

That being said, it was still one of my favorite classes ever, and was immensely useful to me as a newly minted manufacturing engineer in a foundry.

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