Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google Docs New Feature: Pageless

support.google.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 233 posts

Re: Google Docs New Feature: Pageless

#141

Post by yoz-y »

cs702 wrote: post #64
yoz-y wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a weird criticism. A document is clearly not a webpage, main use of Google docs is easy collaboration and that’s not really a thing with html. Most people would not set up something like a git repo to track changes and comment on the content for example.

My comment was not meant as criticism. I'm not sure why anyone would interpret it as such.

Apologies for mistaking it as such. After re-reading it again I can see your original intent. I need to brush up on my principle of charity :/

Re: Google Docs New Feature: Pageless

#142

Post by lewisjoe »

AnonC wrote: post #120
lewisjoe wrote: post #4

I'm in the business of building an online word processor - https://www.zoho.com/writer It's interesting how the documents industry is moving from print oriented legacy softwares (Google Docs, Word) to block based, app-ish, smart canvases (Notion, Coda, etc). Also both Microsoft & Google have adopted completely different strategies to compete in this market. Microsoft launched Loop as an entirely new app while Google…

A tangential question on Zoho Writer: why isn’t there any information on pricing (or a statement that it’s free)? I looked for pricing links. I even went to the resources page and searched for pricing and found no results. The very first thing I need to know when looking at an online platform is what kind of lock-in exists, how I can safely try it out and how much time I should invest in trying it out. The Writer pag…

Hi, sorry about the confusion. We didn't have a pricing page because the app itself is free for individuals (along with a bunch of other editors as well for spreadsheets and powerpoint presentations). You can sign up with your email account right away and start using.

We do have paid plans in case you need to onboard a team and want access to a bunch of other apps as well - https://www.zoho.com/in/workplace/

Re: Google Docs New Feature: Pageless

#143

Post by monkeybutton »

wongarsu wrote: post #121
raldi wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do three nontechnical writers collaborate on an HTML document?

In the real world typically with Wordpress if the target group is outside the company or Confluence if the target group is inside the company.

I prefer the process of writing up a short document describing a feature proposal or small project using Google docs over confluence. Its self contained, limited (focused) in scope and the highlighting/commenting/editing feedback loop between multiple authors is way better.

Re: Google Docs New Feature: Pageless

#144

Post by sergiotapia »

dpkrjb wrote: post #28
lewisjoe wrote: post #4

I'm in the business of building an online word processor - https://www.zoho.com/writer It's interesting how the documents industry is moving from print oriented legacy softwares (Google Docs, Word) to block based, app-ish, smart canvases (Notion, Coda, etc). Also both Microsoft & Google have adopted completely different strategies to compete in this market. Microsoft launched Loop as an entirely new app while Google…

Have you ever tried to print a Notion document? It feels like they made the "Export to PDF" in a weekend. It's hugely underpowered and under-featured. It feels like Notion's demographic just dont need to share documents as documents. Notion would likely have put more effort into that feature if they did.

Haven't printed a document in four years now. I think the number of people who print is getting smaller and smaller.

Re: Google Docs New Feature: Pageless

#145

Post by ryandrake »

lewisjoe wrote: post #4

I'm in the business of building an online word processor - https://www.zoho.com/writer It's interesting how the documents industry is moving from print oriented legacy softwares (Google Docs, Word) to block based, app-ish, smart canvases (Notion, Coda, etc). Also both Microsoft & Google have adopted completely different strategies to compete in this market. Microsoft launched Loop as an entirely new app while Google…

I just hope the industry doesn't "move on" from print-focused word processing and start treating it like a second class citizen. Some of us target actual print: Books, technical manuals, posters, pamphlets, brochures, etc. and Docs is still basically decent "poor man's desktop publishing". Trying to layout a document for print when you don't have WYSIWYG page boundaries is a nightmare.

Re: Google Docs New Feature: Pageless

#146

Post by snewman »

polote wrote: post #26
lewisjoe wrote: post #4

I'm in the business of building an online word processor - https://www.zoho.com/writer It's interesting how the documents industry is moving from print oriented legacy softwares (Google Docs, Word) to block based, app-ish, smart canvases (Notion, Coda, etc). Also both Microsoft & Google have adopted completely different strategies to compete in this market. Microsoft launched Loop as an entirely new app while Google…

> My bet is on Google Docs style, Also in the industry. My bet is on all of them. Some people prefer block based, some prefer text, some prefer Markdown, some don't care. Writing a book on Notion is impossible for now, but building beautiful pages is much easier in Notion. Microsoft and Google (And Atlassian) have all adopted the same strategy which is "Look more like Notion". I don't think that Microsoft should be w…

I'm one of the original authors of Writely / Google Docs, and worked on relatively heavy-duty word processors in an earlier life.

I'd agree with you, and add that there are are a lot of other details that make Notion nicer to use. We made the move from Docs to Notion at work a year or two ago, and I've recently switched for personal use as well. Some of the differences are power-user things (e.g. easier to manage certain types of formatting from the keyboard), but a big thing for me is that Notion makes it a lot easier to manage multiple pages. Both the left-hand navigation list, and the ability to nest pages, are game changers when you're trying to manage a large collection of information.

Also Notion just feels cleaner; I haven't really tried to analyze why. And it seems like pages load faster, though I'm not sure whether this is literally true or just something about the experience makes it seem that way. Either way, it makes a difference.

As a word processor, Notion is still pretty immature. It's not very good at handling cross-block selections, using cut/paste to manipulate bullet lists often results in a dropped bullet, etc. There are a lot of little fit-and-finish touches that are table stakes for a mature word processor, but don't seem to be a focus for Notion. I'm hoping, but not confident, this will improve over time. Docs is better at this (ever since they threw away our our original hacky contenteditable code and built the entire editing experience in JavaScript), but that's not enough to make me switch back from Notion, just enough to make me wish Notion would put some energy into this.

Re: Google Docs New Feature: Pageless

#147

Post by mxuribe »

falcor84 wrote: post #52
togaen wrote: post #23

Google just reinvented HTML documents. Great.

I for one kinda liked MS FrontPage.

google: You see, consumers can now scroll left/right as well as up/down, and content is more flexibly viewed.

observer: You mean...like a web page?

google: no, no...its like...its like...well, its...Um, content that can be authored by non-techies which consumers can view online with lots more flexibility and freedom...Hey, these consumers can increase/decrease font sizes, etc. Cool, right?

observer: So...Um, its like MS Frontpage?

google: No, no, its more sophisticated than that. Um, maybe we're not explaining it right. Its more complex than what somrything like Frontpage can make...or well, actually its just easier for content creators to use...i guess.

observer: Oh, so its like Dreamweaver circa-early-2000s??

google: Yes, exactly! Oh wait...crap.

/s ;-)

Re: Google Docs New Feature: Pageless

#148

Post by zarkov99 »

polote wrote: post #123
rmbyrro wrote: post #118

> If your document contains elements like footnotes, headers and footers, or watermarks, and it is converted to pageless, those elements will not be visible. Headers and footers are print-oriented, but losing footnotes is not ok. They could have displayed on the side, or highlighted in some way to display on mouse over or click. Whatever, just make them available...

Then don't use the pageless feature and you will not have any issue

Pageless is great, except for the loss of footnotes. Why not fix that and have the best of both worlds?

Re: Google Docs New Feature: Pageless

#149

Post by cs702 »

yoz-y wrote: post #141
cs702 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment was not meant as criticism. I'm not sure why anyone would interpret it as such.

Apologies for mistaking it as such. After re-reading it again I can see your original intent. I need to brush up on my principle of charity :/

Thank you. I appreciate it :-)

It seems we've all come across so much (unhelpful) sarcasm on the web that whenever we see certain phrases or grammatical constructs, we are unconsciously preconditioned to think the intent is negative -- even when it isn't.

On my end, I'll try to be more mindful about my phrasing next time.

Re: Google Docs New Feature: Pageless

#150

Post by lewisjoe »

ryandrake wrote: post #145
lewisjoe wrote: post #4

I'm in the business of building an online word processor - https://www.zoho.com/writer It's interesting how the documents industry is moving from print oriented legacy softwares (Google Docs, Word) to block based, app-ish, smart canvases (Notion, Coda, etc). Also both Microsoft & Google have adopted completely different strategies to compete in this market. Microsoft launched Loop as an entirely new app while Google…

I just hope the industry doesn't "move on" from print-focused word processing and start treating it like a second class citizen. Some of us target actual print: Books, technical manuals, posters, pamphlets, brochures, etc. and Docs is still basically decent "poor man's desktop publishing". Trying to layout a document for print when you don't have WYSIWYG page boundaries is a nightmare.

I don't think we ever will or even should ditch paper formats. It will always have its place in legal or any other industry that relies on formal documenting.

My selfish reason: take the most popular paper format - PDF. A PDF created thirty years ago, is viewable today and will be preserved intact and viewable thirty years from now. I won't be able to say the same about a Coda or Notion doc. With all that dynamic blocks pulling data from all over the internet, I don't even think it's possible.

Post reply on HN