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Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

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Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#141
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your point? That Russia state TV should be available everywhere so everyone can watch Russian propaganda?

Yes. One man's "propaganda" is another man's news. It's an assault on Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press. I also note other news networks have been happily spouting anti-Russian propaganda as well (i.e. "Ghost of Kiev", "Miss Ukraine Fighting", and the "Snake Island Martyrs" to name but 3). I also note none of the Western Media talk about shelling, murder, and rape of the ethnic Russian civilians in the Donba…

I haven't watched RT in the recent years, so I can't judge that instance (but I have do admit that, unless there is some heavy misrepresentation going on, I can understand why they want to ban it. That's without judging the ban as good or bad, which I find exceedingly difficult; and I don't want to [and will not] engage in that discussion, at least not without thinking more about it and considering the facts and implications).

However, I think you're [technically] wrong about "news shouldn't have bias". I'd like to start by pointing out that there is a huge gap between biased news and propaganda. A conservative and a liberal news outlet might report on the same thing with different point of views and come to different conclusions (why did it happen? is it good that it happened? what effect has the thing happening? and so on). That's bias; and it's not even too bad a thing. Reading multiple outlets with different biases will give you a good idea of what different people think about an event, allowing the reader to keep an open mind and engage in a more fruitful discussion. Good journalism will even do that for you, by mentioning opposing views without discrediting them. That's the reasoning behind "I think you're [technically] wrong".

Now, what you have in mind goes beyond simple bias. Given the example, either outlet might use their news to push their own agenda, and in my book that's dangerous and on the verge of being propaganda. They might also knowingly misrepresent the facts to do so, or outright invent things (or leave out important bits), which I'd classify as full blown propaganda. Yes, a lot of popular/mainstream "news", especially in the US (but also in the EU), are closer to propaganda than to being just biased (or are propaganda, think "stolen election" narrative). So one man's "propaganda" is indeed another man's news. Or, more precisely, some man's "news" is propaganda.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#142
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship does not have to be public. Private companies can and do censor things all the time. They have that right. Freedom of speech is freedom from government censorship, not private censorship.

> "Freedom of speech is freedom from government censorship, not private censorship." I really detest this line of thought. What good are the concept of human rights when people declare that private companies by definition cannot infringe on them?

Interactions with companies are fundamentally voluntarist. Not in the sense that you can’t end up with a corporate dystopia; but rather in the sense that a motivated populace can destroy a corporate dystopia just by demanding legislation, without fighting a literal civil war, the way they’d have to do for a government dystopia.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#143
Western fight against Russian rules by implementing that rules. This is pure hypocrisy and will do more harm in future, just like covid propaganda and censorship around vaccines.

We are loosing our freedom and values every day. Because of our safety, of course.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#144

Regulation: > it is necessary, consistent with the fundamental rights and freedoms recognised in the Charter of Fundamental Rights, in particular with the right to freedom of expression and information as recognised in Article 11 thereof, to introduce further restrictive measures to urgently suspend the broadcasting activities of such media outlets in the Union What. Don't gaslight me with sentences like this in a of…

Are you seriously expressing outrage that the legislation describing the limits to the freedom of expression is in the section about freedom of expression?

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#145

It's depressing how utterly normal this level of censorship has become in Western society. Ten years ago there would have been at least a modicum of ho-hum about decisions to ban foreign media. I've watched RT on a few occasions and I never thought their reporting outright propaganda. It does have a clear non-pro-West bias which gives you a dose of awareness that Western reporting is biased too.

> I've watched RT on a few occasions and I never thought their reporting outright propaganda

Now watch it more often and you'll notice even more bias and outright wrong translations of interviews, along with well cut footage.

Now make it the only source of news (well, along with other channels, RT is not the only one) for Russian speakers and you'll understand why they're seemingly stupid - every single Russian outside Russia I've spoken with believes in some dumbass shit like Covid conspiracies, or "the West" always antagonizing Russia, or Putin being a good leader, or the war being justified, or there being no war.

It's not only RT, these people actively go to Odnoklassniki (Russian Fecebook) or Russian Fecebook sites for their news.

It would be fine if these news are accurate/neutral. But they're always against "the West" (which now includes half of Asia, so I don't even know anymore).

If one guy seems like an asshole, he may be an asshole. If two guys are assholes, you may be unlucky. If three guys are assholes, maybe you're the asshole.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#146
post #103

It's depressing how utterly normal this level of censorship has become in Western society. Ten years ago there would have been at least a modicum of ho-hum about decisions to ban foreign media. I've watched RT on a few occasions and I never thought their reporting outright propaganda. It does have a clear non-pro-West bias which gives you a dose of awareness that Western reporting is biased too.

What is your point? That Russia state TV should be available everywhere so everyone can watch Russian propaganda?

Have you not encountered this sort of "information cannot be harmful" type of free speech absolutist before?

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#147

Regulation: > it is necessary, consistent with the fundamental rights and freedoms recognised in the Charter of Fundamental Rights, in particular with the right to freedom of expression and information as recognised in Article 11 thereof, to introduce further restrictive measures to urgently suspend the broadcasting activities of such media outlets in the Union What. Don't gaslight me with sentences like this in a of…

https://fra.europa.eu/en/eu-charter/article/11-freedom-expre...

> The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

They're saying Article 11 already accounts for these scenarios. (I'd presume they learned from the US experience, where it was left to the courts to provide the "ok but there are obviously exceptions" relief valves to the Constitution.)

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#148
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone wants to watch Russian propaganda or RT, they should be free to do so. Just like you are free to browse western media sites. This choice should be up to the individual and their beliefs.

Yeah let people consume junk all they want. Just don’t be surprised when Jan 6th happens again.

You think that if you only close enough TV stations these people are going to start watching Rachel Maddow?

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#149
post #13

IANAL but to me, this looks (hopefully unintentionally) much more insidious (emphasis mine): > It shall be prohibited for operators to broadcast or to enable, facilitate or otherwise contribute to broadcast, any content by the legal persons, entities or bodies listed in Annex XV, including through transmission or distribution by any means such as cable, satellite, IP-TV, internet service providers, internet video-sha…

Ha! Why so modest that you stop at just digital services? Surely with that wide an interpretation farming can be seen as "facilitating" the production of content by RT as it helps keep food prices down.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#150
post #82
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the Czech Republic (inside former USSR's 'sphere of influence'), and the effects of Russian disinformation campaigns on our society are real. We are in a 'hybrid war' with Russia for at least ten years.

> and the effects of Russian disinformation campaigns on our society are real is this not a failure of czech/european society at large instead of RT?

This is rather like blaming the host for the spread of a virus.
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