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Tinder’s pricing algorithm can charge users up to 5x more for same service

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Re: Tinder’s pricing algorithm can charge users up to 5x more for same service

#141

Post by barry-cotter »

hda2 wrote: post #132
barry-cotter wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s this “unfair” crap? We’re talking about dating and mating. Apart from war there may be no human activity in which fairness applies less. Price discrimination in dating apps is as problematic as in airline tickets. Twenty year old men moan about actually having to try and ask people out if they want a date. Thirty five year old women complain that they can’t find someone who loves them for their career accompli…

I don't know what you're going on about, but this "crap" was in reference to increasing price without offering something in return. If a store sold a woman an specific item for 5x the price they offer to men, they would be sued for discrimination. Unless serving certain demographics costs tinder more (thereby justifying the increase the price), it is objectively unfair and discriminatory. End of story.

The “crap” you’re talking about is the idea that fairness has a place in mating. The thing that justifies tinder charging different groups of people different prices is that they want to and if people don’t want to buy they don’t have to. It’s the same rationale by which tiers of software services that differ in their cost to the provider by little or nothing differ in their cost to the buyer by orders of magnitude. If you don’t want to buy don’t.

If discrimination by gender or other relevant characteristic was illegal in the US that might have some legal, not moral bearing, but no one cares.

> In the United States, a few states have adopted statutes forbidding gender-based price discrimination, but these policies are largely unenforced.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-based_price_discrimin...

Re: Tinder’s pricing algorithm can charge users up to 5x more for same service

#142

Post by blfr »

numbers_guy wrote: post #133
blfr wrote: post #113

Tinder is so extremely effective that it's almost certainly underpriced at all of these levels purely because of perception. I only had gold once and bought a couple of boosts but for over two months I would fill my calendar with 2-4 dates a week at something close to Spotify sub ($20/mo iirc). There is no other way to meet women this efficiently. And it was a lot of fun, too. It took out all the slog out of dating.…

In my experience, the types of women I am looking for would never use Tinder, so although you get more matches it is still completely useless. You have to really question what kind of young woman is desperate enough to meet a man that she'd use an app, ... not the kind I'm interested in.

I also expected a certain kind of woman and was suprised how varied users on Tinder were. Of course there were quite a few women with extensive dating experience and, let's say, Instagram tastes (not that there's anything wrong with that) but I also met a very sweet vet who kept sending me dog vids from her clinic, a movie production nerd (making them, not memorizing imdb), a depressive poet with a keen sense of style, and an MD for whom this was like a third real first date in her life.

Occasionally, the photos were a bit old (pre-pandemic) or very flattering, one might have been a tad unstable, but in general, they were just normal and nice.

Re: Tinder’s pricing algorithm can charge users up to 5x more for same service

#143

Post by antman »

rmason wrote: post #70

They're basically applying enterprise level pricing to a consumer product. You ever try and check the price for a SaaS service only to find that you have to contact them? They will explain they need answers to a bunch of questions to know if the product is a good fit for you. What they're really trying to do is figure out the max you will pay.

That is not so much Enterprise marketing looks more like the Turkish street market carpet pricing, but without getting a carpet.

Re: Tinder’s pricing algorithm can charge users up to 5x more for same service

#144

Post by EdwardDiego »

nikanj wrote: post #123
EdwardDiego wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance premiums are based on massive tables of probable risks. E.g., I'm a redhead living in the Southern Hemisphere who has been active in the outdoors all my life and who smoked for 30 years. So to get insurance that paid out in the event of terminal illness, I had to either pay a massive premium, or agree to exclude melanoma and lung cancer. Makes sense - redheads produce minimal melanin, and there is far more…

Considering their size, their pricing is probably also based on data. They probably know scaringly well how big the ”risk” of you finding love is, and can price services accordingly

Hmm, you'd think then that they'd charge a higher price for younger, good looking people with the text "not DTF" in their profile then.

They're a) far more likely to find a partner and b) leave the platform when they do.

So higher "risk" of exiting the platform from Tinder's POV, so you'd want to get their money upfront, presumably?

Divorced men who are going to fat while balding, with 50/50 care of three kids and alimony to pay, aren't flying off the shelf.

So for Tinder, they're a low exit risk, and typically far more able and willing to pay for features that they think might aid them.

A 25 year old man in good shape, no kids, and starting out on a good career, is far less likely to _need_ the features Tinder charges for.

Re: Tinder’s pricing algorithm can charge users up to 5x more for same service

#145

Post by vermarish »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #116

I seem to remember articles from lots of sources, I believe Stratechery was one, about a decade ago advocating for this kind of pricing scheme of using analytics to figure out the price that people will pay and charging them that. A lot of the examples was based on income level which of course made me think, hey here I've struggled all my life to get into the middle class and now they want to change up how you pay fo…

The report from Mozilla argues that (paraphrasing:) it would be both technically and legally messy to try and regulate the details of pricing algorithms. It is much more feasible to introduce privacy laws so that the use of a consumer's data for personalized pricing is transparent, fair, and lawful. (page 27 of the original report [0])

I feel very cynical about this. The best solution they can come up with is to let the GDPR deal with it? It's hard to believe that unchecking 5 boxes every time I visit a new site truly aligns with their goal of transparency. The researchers suspect that a lot of personalized pricing schemes are in violation of the GDPR, but I just don't know what enforcing compliance will change.

Coincidentally, I just started writing an essay in my ethics class on methods to deal with unethical algorithmic decision making. I'm very happy to discuss this.

[0] https://www.consumersinternational.org/media/369078/personal...

Re: Tinder’s pricing algorithm can charge users up to 5x more for same service

#146

Post by BoorishBears »

nikanj wrote: post #120
BoorishBears wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certain cards are very popular with certain demographics. I would not do something as stupid using cards to discriminate pricing. Now of course, we live in a society where the courts would never actually make that link, so you can argue I'd be a bad leader leaving money on the table like that... But I'd say that's more a problem with our system than anything.

Your legal case would pretty fast turn into bizarre hate speech: ”They’re charging people using the costco mastercard more!” ”Yeah, and?” ”Well, everyone knows that the jews love costco, and you can’t discriminate against an ethnic minority!”

Why?

Cash app targets underbanked people... guess what demographics are underbanked: https://www.bcg.com/publications/2021/unbanked-and-underbank...

So guess who they market heavily to: https://trapital.co/2020/03/18/how-hip-hop-helped-cash-app-g...

It's not racist, but it does make people look at uncomfortable truths about equality...

Re: Tinder’s pricing algorithm can charge users up to 5x more for same service

#147

Post by vermarish »

navi0 wrote: post #17

Is Mozilla’s new strategy to raise its profile and gain Firefox users to become ProPublica? (I’m a FF fan but this seems off brand to me)

I am equally surprised, but it's still in line with their manifesto. Excerpt:

> We are committed to an internet that includes all the peoples of the earth — where a person’s demographic characteristics do not determine their online access, opportunities, or quality of experience.

Re: Tinder’s pricing algorithm can charge users up to 5x more for same service

#148

Post by luis8 »

bogota wrote: post #137
luis8 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would i lie? I'm pretty sure they also use my destinations to asses my income and factor that into how much i'm willing to pay for a ride

Reach out to any news organization than. They love selling uber is evil and this would be breaking news for them. I don’t believe you because I hardly believe anything i read in comment sections. People are normally under informed or being malicious.

I did a Google search and Forbes and other sites goes into this matter. I could say the same thing about you and that you deny it because you somehow benefits from it.

But in any case I still use it because I find it useful regardless of this custom pricing

Re: Tinder’s pricing algorithm can charge users up to 5x more for same service

#149

Post by bryanrasmussen »

vermarish wrote: post #145
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #116

I seem to remember articles from lots of sources, I believe Stratechery was one, about a decade ago advocating for this kind of pricing scheme of using analytics to figure out the price that people will pay and charging them that. A lot of the examples was based on income level which of course made me think, hey here I've struggled all my life to get into the middle class and now they want to change up how you pay fo…

The report from Mozilla argues that (paraphrasing:) it would be both technically and legally messy to try and regulate the details of pricing algorithms. It is much more feasible to introduce privacy laws so that the use of a consumer's data for personalized pricing is transparent, fair, and lawful. (page 27 of the original report [0]) I feel very cynical about this. The best solution they can come up with is to let…

How about GDPR 2.0, if PII is involved in personal pricing schemes and you are found to be in violation you will need to inform all of the customers paying higher than your lower rate what you did to them, pay the money back, and have a higher minimum fine and a higher maximum fine.

Re: Tinder’s pricing algorithm can charge users up to 5x more for same service

#150

Post by luis8 »

b0afc375b5 wrote: post #121
luis8 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would i lie? I'm pretty sure they also use my destinations to asses my income and factor that into how much i'm willing to pay for a ride

Is it possible that since multiple users requested a ride with the same source and destination that it triggered "surge" pricing?

It could but it was the other way around though. He requested after me so we used his ride instead. I guess the demand went down after I requested it? who knows
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