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The underground economy of solitary confinement

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Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#141

Post by ROTMetro »

ROTMetro wrote: post #97
Bradlinc wrote: post #12

Three things occur to me as I read this article: 1) Toilet paper seems like a necessity. 2) In America, we treat our prisoners horribly. We are going to look back on this in a 100 years with the same disdain we look back on slavery. 3) Though I have a hard day a head of me, my life could be far, far worse.

Slavery is allowed in prison as an exception in the US Constitution. https://www.history.com/news/13th-amendment-slavery-loophole... Do not support UNICOR or UNICOR products if you are not into slave labor. You can not have a fair working environment when your prison guard is your boss. https://www.unicor.gov/

BTW major US businesses use Unicor for backend support/logistics. There were guys denied going to lower level facilities (with better privileges, closer to family, etc) because their forced labor was too valuable.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#142

Post by ROTMetro »

Ekaros wrote: post #26
randomacct8162 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on computers a lot as a kid and sort of taught myself programming (very poorly) in my early years. When I caught this charge, I had just turned 18. It really ruined my life. Currently, I work in tech. For a very long time I was barely making ends meet, working in a fast food restaurant for minimum wage while trying to interview to get a developer job. I went through 8 interview processes, and received offers fr…

I never understood the whole felon thing, if that is allowed discrimination outside certain roles how can those people ever be expected back to society? Ofc, they are going to do more crime if it is their only realistic option for reasonable income.

Hello friend, meet my life. Life, meet Ekaros.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#143

Post by uoaei »

oh_sigh wrote: post #95
matheusmoreira wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit I didn't know that. Those guards belong in jail themselves, what they did is torture. Prison exists to remove from society people who are incompatible with it, nothing more and even that must be constantly questioned and re-evaluated. Nobody deserves to have their dignity stripped away like that.

You're assuming the accounting in the article is correct. Maybe it isn't: > “Nobody can condone someone being thrown into a hot shower and killed,” Rundle said. “We read the same thing everyone else did, but it wasn't until we really investigated that we learned that is not what happened.” https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/katherine-fernandez-rundl...

I don't see how you can read that and take the word of that attorney general as anything but self-serving CYA bullshit.

Even ignoring for the moment the deferment of local news outlets to government officials' press releases, instead of actual journalism, the story simply doesn't line up.

Plus when your only defense is "you haven't proven it beyond a reasonable doubt (because of all of the attempts to make it impossible to recover evidence)", even though that holds up in the court of law, it is not very convincing to any layperson who knows how crime happens.

Bluntly put, this article and subsequent defense are textbook bootlicking.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#144

Post by ROTMetro »

ROTMetro wrote: post #85
mgkimsal wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had to go search for it, but YC funded a company - https://www.70millionjobs.com - that focuses on felon-friendly companies hiring.

So I just signed up for this site. It has Home Depot who won't hire you if you are on paper (supervised release) and other companies that will bring you on 'temp to hire' when they have need, but will seldom convert a felon to permanent. Shows a lack of understanding or communication with the people they are trying to 'help'. I got better support from the other guys my first 15 minutes in the half way house than this…

Sorry this previous post is pretty agressive, my frustration is definitely coming through there and they do not deserve that. I am sure they are well meaning. I wish I could delete it.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#145

Post by kingcharles »

symlinkk wrote: post #66
kingcharles wrote: post #54

I did three stints in solitary. First for writing to my wife and explaining how I traded coffee for stamped envelopes, which got me an extortion charge. On the last day of my "sentence" in solitary I had my trial and was found "not guilty" of the charge. Of course, it was like Alice in Wonderland, I did my time then got my trial. (during this time in solitary though they went through all my property and figured out I…

How were the other prisoners? Did you feel physically threatened by them?

Very, very rarely. I got into one serious fight and lost (broken nose). I toughened up real quick. People are going to steal your shit from you, or you're going to lend someone something (say some coffee until commissary day) and they won't give it back. What will you do? If you don't fight then everyone will know they can take advantage of you. You have to at least have to intimidate the other person and make it seem you are willing to fight.

If you go to jail or prison it is relatively unlikely you will come to serious harm. Not many people in jail really want to fight. I did watch hundreds of fights and I came to the conclusion the human face is really not designed for fighting. It breaks very, very easily.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#146

Post by kingcharles »

lupire wrote: post #105
kingcharles wrote: post #54

I did three stints in solitary. First for writing to my wife and explaining how I traded coffee for stamped envelopes, which got me an extortion charge. On the last day of my "sentence" in solitary I had my trial and was found "not guilty" of the charge. Of course, it was like Alice in Wonderland, I did my time then got my trial. (during this time in solitary though they went through all my property and figured out I…

After such ongoing illegal torture, why don't former prisoners or their loved ones get together and execute serious reprisals?

Here's what happens: everyone who gets out of jail instantly forgets about everyone in jail. I'm exaggerating for effect, but it's mostly true. My brain has done some sort of self-preservation thing and I've only been out for 6 months and I can't remember most of what happened over the 8 years I did inside.

I sued while I was in there for dozens of things connected to solitary confinement. For instance, for detainees in county jails it has been ruled to be illegal to punish them before their in-jail trial for the infraction. I lost the court case, then I lost it again in the appeals court. They ruled the opposite - they said that detainees can be punished for any reason, any time, without trial. Remember - detainees have never been convicted of a crime. I've never been convicted of one myself, except a traffic ticket about 20 years ago.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#147

Post by kingcharles »

ROTMetro wrote: post #137
lupire wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After such ongoing illegal torture, why don't former prisoners or their loved ones get together and execute serious reprisals?

Lot's of reasons. Read the court cases and see why the judges explain it's actually legal to do and see you have no chance of winning. Or read the Prosecution reply briefs where the Prosecutors point out that the convicted felon as part of his plea agreement agreed to not challenge his conviction in any way. If you take a plea (which cuts 20 years off your sentence because of the trial tax ( https://www.americanbar.o…

This man speaks the truth and obviously has a lot of experience with the system. It is hard. Hard, hard, hard. You have to sue yourself, without counsel, unless you are rich. Almost no lawyers will take these cases up on contingency (what you see on TV where the lawyer puts up all the costs with the hopes of making his money back from the settlement) as they are mostly losing cases. The courts HATE prisoner rights cases and will find against you using any method possible.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#148

Post by ROTMetro »

jmyeet wrote: post #69

The US prison-industrial complex is really disgusting and before anyone brings it up: private prisons aren't why. Those are still the minority of prison populations (but yes they're still bad). Price gouging (ie commisary, cost of phone calls, charging for video vists in prison, copays to see a doctor, institutionalized rape as a form of punishment and control and yes, solitary confinement). Prosecturos, legislators…

The Feds do not allow rape any longer. Once you reach your designated facility you are fairly safe from flat out rape. Pressures and coercion exist but just flat out rape as far as I saw was very rare. PREA is taken very seriously.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#149

Post by ROTMetro »

gwd wrote: post #43
randomacct8162 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I am not against the death penalty. It makes much more economic sense than life in prison (it costs ludicrous amounts of money to house prisoners per-annua) and as someone who has done prison time my personal opinion is I'd rather be killed than face the mental agony of living the rest of my days in there. I'm not sure why so many people are against it or think it's inhumane. I think it's a bit silly considerin…

I'm not against the death penalty in principle ; but in practice , at least the way our current system is set up, it just seems to lead to perverse problems. Since prosecutors are generally a political office, there's a strong incentive to be seen as "tough on crime" by getting lots of death penalty convictions. The result is innocent people convicted. If you're alive, there's always a chance your conviction will be…

A country that only allows 14 days to challenge the legality of a sentence (https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_35) is not responsible enough nor does it provide robust enough legal protections to have a death penalty. Rule 35 is the only way a judge can alter a sentence other than compassionate release (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3582) or a 2255 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/2255) motion (that has a 1 year limit. Also note in 2255 you actually have to make your own 2255 or 2244 motion if your punishment has been found unconstitutional. Relief is not automatically granted in the US Justice system just because the Supreme Court finds your sentence or punishment unconstitutional) or a 2244 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/2244 again with a 1 year limit). A convict that accepted a plea can not make a 2255 or 2244 challenge because part of the plea is an agreement to a legal bar from challenging your sentence under it (called an attack on your sentence). If you do not accept a plea and give up your right to challenge your sentence for being illegal or unconstitutional, you face the trial tax (https://www.nacdl.org/Document/TrialPenaltySixthAmendmentRig...). The trial tax not only requires you to give up your constitutional right to a trial but also your right to be free from an illegal (say by gathering evidence in an illegal way) or unconstitutional (say sentence to 30 years for a petty drug offense) sentence. This plea is normally jurisdictional meaning a court can not over rule it. Some Prosecutors will also argue that this waiver applies to compassionate release motions as well.

And this is the point where I no longer feel comfortable commenting on this thread because I am a happy and positive guy looking forward to redeeming myself in society and this is not a constructive use of my energy.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#150

Post by howlin »

randomacct8162 wrote: post #19
syki wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I taught a semester in a max security prison. It was described to me as a controlled movement facility. It was an interesting experience and one that stuck with me. That prison was a bad place. Thanks for your anecdote about the former police officer.

Thank you for doing that, it's an important job. I learned spanish by taking an hour-long spanish class every weekday while I was in there. If your class wasn't mandatory, then I'm sure you know that most people were just there probably to get extra time out of their cell or to break the monotony. And I assume most of them were complete assholes to you. After I am financially independent, I want to try to get state/f…

|After I am financially independent, I want to try to get state/federal funding so that I can go back to prisons and teach programming AND partner with companies to have jobs/interviews lined up for release dates.

There are certainly NGOs who will help you with this mission. Do some research and let us know.

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