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Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

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Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#141

Post by imilk »

trelane wrote: post #116
imilk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been waiting for a Linux that "just works" for decades. And they'll probably still be waiting for the next 20 years. But that's not really the point of using Linux.

They have it now. The trick is to stop buying Windows hardware. Looks like this is just more of that rather than Linux (or just not broken) hardware.

I have DIY Framework that came without an operating system. Installed Pop_OS on it from a flash drive and in 10 minutes all the necessary tweaks were made.

So if 10 minutes of installing an OS and tweaking a few settings stops someone from spending years with a computer, I'm a bit confused by their attitude.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#142

Post by imilk »

freedomben wrote: post #105
hutzlibu wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But that's not really the point of using Linux." That philosophy is probably part of the reason, why linux on the desktop stays in its small niche inside tech circles. Most people, myself included, indeed want a system that "just works" - to get the actual work done. And then if the basics work, I can enjoy the full freedom to tweak it to my needs in infinity. But only very few people enjoy "freedom to tinker", when…

I'm pretty competent/qualified to tinker with my Linux, but I still much prefer a "just works" approach too. I think most in the community do. I don't want a "Just works because everything is hyper-locked down" but that's a much different thing IMHO. Fortunately most distros have gotten to where we are. Fedora works amazingly well OOTB on so much hardware, and I've heard great things about Pop and other popular distr…

I can confirm that Pop works on a Framework without about 10 minutes of adjusting a few settings. Which is not that different than any other OS imo.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#143

Post by imilk »

raman162 wrote: post #23
isaac21259 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think a significant amount of people who want to run Linux will want it preinstalled for them?

I personally do. A "just works" configuration will be ideal for me. Anytime I install linux on a new computer, I find myself spending too much time tinkering with configuration settings to make basic things like adjusting keyboard brightness and volume control work with the respective keys.

You don't have to do any of that with a Framework and Ubunut/Pop. The only real thing to adjust was getting the fingerprint sensor working, which really was copy/pasting a script. Everything else worked perfectly out of the box.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#144

Post by dheera »

freedomben wrote: post #100
dheera wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah personally I've settled with 100% with larger fonts. I probably spend 90% of my time in web browser + coding + terminal combined and they all handle arbitrary fractional scaling well from within the app. And then maybe 5% of the time in graphics editing for which it doesn't matter. For other locally run apps, scaling at 125% or 150% would be perfect but I think it's just a matter of time before Linux supports it…

If you can use wayland on your distro, it can do that fractional scaling. I think I settled on like 140%

Oh yeah I am on Wayland. (X didn't work well for me at all, choppy mouse motions.) Fractional scaling works, just seems to consume more CPU than 100% or 200% though.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#145

Post by nrp »

frakkingcylons wrote: post #44
aunty_helen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a point that people should remember if they're thinking about purchasing a framework. This is still very much beta hardware. The battery drain is annoying, it's around 30-50% per night depending on what addon cards you have. I've got a setup that puts it close to 40% per night so the laptop has to live on charger over night if I want to use it the next day. However, the thing that's really stopping me from us…

> The mac-book killer was very much hyperbole from paid reviewers. Hold on. Which reviewers received payments in return for positive coverage of the laptop?

Arriving at this thread late, but we have never paid a reviewer and it’s unlikely we ever will. For reviewers like Linus Tech Tips and other YouTubers who do a mix of sponsored and non-sponsored reviews (and provide a clear disclaimer of which ones are which), we’ve only followed the non-sponsored path.

We discussed investment with Linus only after his review, and before making a decision on it, he brought it in front of his community to flag the risks of future conflicts of interest. Since completing the investment, he has also continued to flag that potential conflict in additional videos he has posted.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#146

Post by cottager2 »

TranquilMarmot wrote: post #119
netizen-936824 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question here. I run gentoo on an NVMe drive and I have zero reason to use sleep or hibernate as my machine gets to the DE in under 30s. What use cases are there that absolutely requires these features when boot times are so short?

I'm also curious why people are so keen on needing a device to be powered on and ready to go within a second or two. On my Framework (running Windows) I have it set up to hibernate when the lid closes to preserve battery. It takes about 10 seconds to get back into the desktop when I open the lid again. It's not like I'm opening/closing the lid dozens of times a day; I open it, work for a few hours, then close it. It'…

> I'm also curious why people are so keen on needing a device to be powered on and ready to go within a second or two.

Because it’s way more convenient. Next time you go to open your front door, take out your phone, start a timer for 30s, and then put the key in the door once the timer expires. Once you’re used to something being near-instant, there is no going back. Waiting is frustrating.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#147

Post by cottager2 »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #123
charcircuit wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleep and hibernate are about persisting state and not about boot time. I don't want to spend time reopening everything and setting everything up when I come back to my computer. I just want to continue where I left off.

The way I have things set up, my browser opens all my last tabs and I have things set to start the browser and a few other programs at boot. What programs are you using in such a fashion that simply having the program autostart at boot is not feasible?

I actually find it a bit surprising that you aren’t aware of a difference. Have you used a MacBook recently? If no, I highly suggest you try it. Once you’re used to instant startups, waiting for a boot is just frustrating.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#148

Post by NavinF »

TranquilMarmot wrote: post #119
netizen-936824 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question here. I run gentoo on an NVMe drive and I have zero reason to use sleep or hibernate as my machine gets to the DE in under 30s. What use cases are there that absolutely requires these features when boot times are so short?

I'm also curious why people are so keen on needing a device to be powered on and ready to go within a second or two. On my Framework (running Windows) I have it set up to hibernate when the lid closes to preserve battery. It takes about 10 seconds to get back into the desktop when I open the lid again. It's not like I'm opening/closing the lid dozens of times a day; I open it, work for a few hours, then close it. It'…

Not judging, but this thread goes to show how differently people use computers and what they’re willing to tolerate.

Personally I haven’t used hibernate in over a decade and my machines typically run 6 months until I have to reboot for updates. If I had to wait ~10 seconds every time I wanted to google something, I wouldn’t use my PC nearly as often as I do today. Maybe that’s why mobile is dominant in so many categories like web search.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#149

Post by 0x38B »

freedomben wrote: post #97
causi wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'll be excited about version 2. Version 1 just has too many missed opportunities. For example, a single type-c bay could accommodate two type-A ports, or one port and one microsd reader. Wasting a whole one on a reader is dumb when most laptops just have one stuck somewhere. Give me a bay with a pop-out bluetooth mouse in it. Give me a non-chiclet keyboard and a touchpad with real buttons and a dGPU option and…

FWIW, I have an HDMI and an sd card reader expansion card that I keep in my backpack. I rarely need them buy they are small and super easy/quick to swap out that I just remove a USB port and put those in when I need them. I had a lenovo with all-the-ports and I feel like I have a lot more with the framework since I can put in what I need when I need it. I haven't yet needed an sd card reader while charging while plug…

The biggest problem with headphone dongles for me and my family is that they don’t last. The Apple one has great sound but doesn’t take long to start cutting out (from getting yanked on in a pocket, probably).

I bought an all-metal, tiny USB-C to 3.5mm dongle and it’s started cutting out, too - and it wasn’t cheap, at about $40.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#150

Post by worthless-trash »

omdv wrote: post #17
aunty_helen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a point that people should remember if they're thinking about purchasing a framework. This is still very much beta hardware. The battery drain is annoying, it's around 30-50% per night depending on what addon cards you have. I've got a setup that puts it close to 40% per night so the laptop has to live on charger over night if I want to use it the next day. However, the thing that's really stopping me from us…

Anecdotal, so obviously YMMV. On battery - I am using "sleep then hibernate", which typically means 4-6% of battery drain overnight which happens while it is in first ~2hrs of sleep mode. Of course it means you now spend 30sec booting up, but I can live with that. On touchpad - weird, my experience is opposite. I'd say this is the closest to Macbook experience I had, no issues whatsoever. Speakers are a bit quiet, ag…

Has anyone done investigation into which components are still 'alive' during the sleep ?

This can be done with an infrared camera, should be able to see which components remain hot after a long period of 'sleep', or a voltmeter for the more electrically inclined.

My bet is that its some kind of bus that isnt powering down and continually waking up the devices on it.

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