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Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

nytimes.com

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Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#141

Post by alistairSH »

efitz wrote: post #21
gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

How exactly did you get to “the cause of reckless driving is fat people who don’t walk everywhere?” Show your work. In most places in America walking is not a practical mode of transportation because of distance; it’s miles from your house to the grocery store, for instance. If you live in a city this might not be obvious to you but half the country lives in the burbs or rural areas. Separately, it would be nice if w…

In most places in America walking is not a practical mode of transportation because of distance

Which is 100% our own fault. We could build suburbs with walkable shopping and schools, but we don't. Hell, even in my sort-of-walkable suburb (Reston, VA) sidewalks and bike lanes are both a bit of a bodge. It's on in the last year that there's a continuous sidewalk from my house to the school complex Separately, it would be nice if we had more sidewalks, but they are financially unsustainable in low density areas.

They're less expensive than roads by an order of magnitude. The only place they aren't feasible is true rural zones. But, the vast majority of Americans live in cities or suburbs - there's no good excuse for not having sidewalks in these areas.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#142

Post by [deleted] »

stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

[deleted]

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#143

Post by laputan_machine »

gilbetron wrote: post #49
samwillis wrote: post #34

Here in the UK they have just changed the Highway Code (the rules that given all road users, including pedestrians) so that pedestrians have ultimate right of way in almost all cases. It’s the opposite of the situation in the US, a pedestrian in the UK can cross the road anywhere and I believe cars have to stop and make way. It’s going to be interesting to see how it effects accident numbers, I’m worry it may actuall…

The small US city I live in made such a change, it we had several pedestrians get hit in the first year or so because drivers aren't used to it, can't see people very well, and pedestrians just figured everyone would now just stop. We changed the laws to restrict it to only crosswalks and added in a ton of new crosswalks. Even then, it was still a problem because pedestrians don't realize when someone can see them. I…

In the US you aren't allowed to cross the road wherever you wish as a pedestrian? That seems bizarre to me, in the UK it's completely normal for pedestrians to cross the road wherever they want to.

> and I guarantee you'll see a spike of pedestrians getting hit for a while.

I guarantee the UK has a lower incidence of traffic collisions than the US, per capita or per miles driven.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#144

Post by rjbwork »

ejb999 wrote: post #129
stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

>>The high rate of pedestrian deaths is a result of policy regarding road design, pedestrian infrastructure and lenient criminal charges. The driving culture is also to blame. Driving is a god given right. Cars equal freedom, and the bigger the better. Pedestrians are a nuisance and cyclists are the enemy. Yea, but almost none of those things have changed in the last two year - so does nothing to explain the spike in…

More like blue flu than any real policy changes. The society at large threatening to hold the police accountable for their actions seems to have made them decide not to do their jobs even less than they were before.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#145

Post by vetinari »

analog31 wrote: post #59
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Separately, it would be nice if we had more sidewalks, but they are financially unsustainable in low density areas. What makes sidewalks expensive to maintain, relative to roads? > the biggest issue by far is dietary sugar/carbohydrates This is not clear. See this highly fascinating series on the obesity epidemic: https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p... . Other suspects are HFCS and seed oil…

It could have to do with how they are paid for. When the sidewalks were repaired on my street, each resident received a bill, proportional to how many of the segments were in front of their house. When the road was rebuilt, the money came from Somewhere Else. Yeah, Somewhere Else is ultimately the same place, but homeowners don't see it as personally flowing out of their own pockets.

Are you part of some private community, that is able to make purchase orders on behalf of its members?

Otherwise, what you describe is not normal. The bill would be paid by whoever issued the PO. If it wasn't me, I'm not paying. If it was not on my property, then not my problem, and if it was, you have also trespassing on top.

So the only alternative that occurs to me that you are a part of some community, with common maintenance of shared property and where the bill is footed by members.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#146

Post by [deleted] »

CalRobert wrote: post #136

Drivers are the leading cause of dead kids. But for some reason we completely ignore it, while focusing on gun violence (which is also bad, to be clear). I really don't know a solution aside from moving to a country that's better designed. The US seems too far gone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul_xzyCDT98

[deleted]

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#147

Post by dagw »

efitz wrote: post #21
gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

How exactly did you get to “the cause of reckless driving is fat people who don’t walk everywhere?” Show your work. In most places in America walking is not a practical mode of transportation because of distance; it’s miles from your house to the grocery store, for instance. If you live in a city this might not be obvious to you but half the country lives in the burbs or rural areas. Separately, it would be nice if w…

In most places in America walking is not a practical mode of transportation because of distance; it’s miles from your house to the grocery store, for instance.

That is true to an extent, but it is equally true that there are lots of areas that could be quite walkable, but aren't due to lack of infrastructure. My friend lived less than a mile from the mall, but it was impossible to walk there since it was cut off by a 4 lane road with no way for pedestrians to cross. My grandparents lived in a gated community that was literally across the road from a Walmart, but the only way to get there was to drive 1 mile up the road, turn around, and drive back.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#148

Post by lonelyasacloud »

sillyquiet wrote: post #17
unicornfinder wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair I think the problem isn't just the people but how the roads and infrastructure is designed in the US. It's very anti-pedestrian.

Since pedestrian deaths are 'surging', its gotta be down to something that's changed, not a factor that's been constant all along, right?

Cars are bigger and faster but with the same fundamental reliance on humans not to speed or be dicks as when Model T was on the road.

Fwiw, many groups are attempting to build self-driving cars it would be easy to produce cars that drove at sensible speeds as an intermediate step. That this hasn't happened says something about how a society values drivers', and drivers rights to break the law versus those of the innocents they routinely kill or maim as result.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#149

Post by [deleted] »

samwillis wrote: post #34

Here in the UK they have just changed the Highway Code (the rules that given all road users, including pedestrians) so that pedestrians have ultimate right of way in almost all cases. It’s the opposite of the situation in the US, a pedestrian in the UK can cross the road anywhere and I believe cars have to stop and make way. It’s going to be interesting to see how it effects accident numbers, I’m worry it may actuall…

[deleted]

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#150

Post by stetrain »

stetrain wrote: post #125
gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

Well that correlation can work in the other direction too. What if poor US urban planning has led to sedentary lives where walking to places like grocery stores, parks, or transit is unpleasant, inconvenient, or impossible. So we sit on our butts and drive our cars everywhere, which means more lanes and more parking lots which in return keeps things farther apart and less walkable. People who are never pedestrians pe…

Another piece to this is that being able to drive a car is in many parts of the US considered essential to being able to work, buy groceries, etc.

Which I think leads to lax driver training and enforcement. Suspending someone’s license is potentially destroying their livelihood.

Whatever the cause, our driver training, enforcement, penalties, and general respect for piloting a vehicle in a safe manner seem lower than many European countries.

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