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Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

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Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#141

Post by JohnTHaller »

kcplate wrote: post #139
JohnTHaller wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a big issue way before the vaccine mandates thanks to the absurdity of right-wing media and right-wing politicians' conspiracy theories. And subsequent pushing of ineffective treatments. There are still people here in the US who believe that ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, z-packs, and steroids will save them if they get it. And they're unvaccinated. My friend's sibling just died two months ago. Otherwise heal…

> We had a big issue way before the vaccine mandates thanks to the absurdity of right-wing media and right-wing politicians' conspiracy theories Honestly, I feel like the pandemic politics predated all the right wing conspiracy theories emergence. The democrats/progressive left/resisters decision to make Covid the central issue to oust Trump is the more likely genesis. Very early on (Jan/Feb 2020) everything the Trum…

> Before I get accused of being a conservative or a Trumpie…I’m not and far far from it.

Your comment history betrays you.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#142

Post by kcplate »

slg wrote: post #100
nonethewiser wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I am taking crazy pills the way that many think Trump was the source of the polarization and not a reaction to it.

Are you talking about in general or in relation to the pandemic? In general it was both. Trump was both a reaction to polarization and helped increase it. With the pandemic, I don't think there was an polarization beforehand. The US usually rallies around even unpopular leaders during trouble. 9/11 is the obvious example. Who specifically do you think caused the pandemic polarization?

> Who specifically do you think caused the pandemic polarization?

The progressive left saw it as a strategy to attack an opposing party president in an election year. The pandemic was their only real hope of election success. Their candidate field was weak. The economy was strong leading up to 2020. The president was polarizing, but was immensely strong among his base and had cross over appeal to the blue collar middle class and increasing support of other demographics that usually vote Democrat.

I think there is no doubt in my mind that no pandemic Trump would have easily won a second term. You can argue that the pandemic polarization strategy was successful in that Trump lost, but there was a cost. Also considering the significant lack of success that the Biden administration has had managing the pandemic, too, I am of the opinion that the cost of the increased public polarization may not be worth it.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#143

Post by aakresearch »

My nana lived a long and good life. When I was a little boy, I discovered that she's actually one year older than her official documents suggest. She revealed that it was not done by a mistake or a typo, but by a deliberate action. The story was that in the early 1940s the village she was living in was under German occupation and young people were being conscripted into "labor camps" and transferred to Reich mainland. So her family pulled all the strings, bribed all right people to make a "correction" to the documents in a way indistinguishable from original record. The war was over in a few years, but nobody bothered to "fix" the fake record.

By the way, German administration at the time wanted to be seen as "liberators from communist oppression". The conscription was promoted as highly noble thing, beneficial for the "New Order". Those joining "labor camps" were celebrated. There were bounties set for dobbing in partisans ("bandits"). Although collaborators were many, nonetheless many others, lacking the necessary connections to obtain fake ausweiss, chose to fight the "liberators" with all the rage they could muster. Many paid the ultimate price. If my grandma's document forgery was revealed, the whole family would be in line for execution. By no means it was an "easier" option than conscription, but certainly "easier" than fully joining "people's avengers".

I believe when the matter is perceived as life-and-death, the lack of "easier" option to take out a fake document may very well push some people into full-blood fight. You don't need many of them before society falls into a bloody war. So, the prevalence of fake vaccine certificates may be not a problem, but a blessing in disguise. If one is willing to consider a possible alternative.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#144

Post by marmarama »

awd wrote: post #44
cute_boi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well depends what you call free. If we can end pandemic, we don't have to wear masks, no more boosters. That would be ideal freedom right? But not vaccinating, thinking one can outsmart public health officials, being intolerant is apparently not a freedom to me.

And, after some countries are now on their 4th boosters (Edit: shot, not booster), and my country being about halfway done with their third round, are we slowly stamping out the virus? Personally I feel lied to and misled, the messaging from the government where I am from was far from what one would call nuanced and informed. The short story is that they promised: "If you take your shots, then we'll get out of this m…

But the vaccinations are working to get everyone out of the mess. While Omicron is not prevented entirely by the vaccines, hospitalizations per confirmed case are an order of magnitude lower than previous waves, and deaths are similarly an order of magnitude lower. This was the trend with Delta before Omicron as well.

Highly vaccinated countries are now at the point where any of the current variants are now only a little more dangerous than seasonal flu, which we live with almost every year. As such, barring a more dangerous variant arising, there is no point to further lockdowns. It's endemic, it's not going away entirely, but we can now live with it.

The most important thing we can do now is get the rest of the world into a highly vaccinated state, which will help suppress further variants emerging so quickly.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#145

Post by EngCanMan »

archagon wrote: post #119
monkmartinez wrote: post #79

I can tell you as a first responder, it doesn't matter. The "vaccine" is a damn joke. I am F**ing exhausted this morning, and I don't care anymore. We are being run in the ground across the country with people quitting left and right. Fake vaccine cards are the least of our worries. You heard it here first. The emergency medical system is in deep trouble for way too many reasons to enumerate here. Anecdote time; I re…

Where is the anger directed, exactly? On r/nursing, the general consensus is that practically nobody who's vaccinated and boosted is actually dying, unless they have a lot of other stuff going on: https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/s5p4g1/how_many_fu... It seems disingenuous to call the vaccine a "damn joke".

Reddit is your source? Cmon…

Ontario Canada breaks down deaths by vaccination status, which is currently close to 50/50 on a daily basis.

Please stop believing anything on Reddit.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#146

Post by kcplate »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #141
kcplate wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We had a big issue way before the vaccine mandates thanks to the absurdity of right-wing media and right-wing politicians' conspiracy theories Honestly, I feel like the pandemic politics predated all the right wing conspiracy theories emergence. The democrats/progressive left/resisters decision to make Covid the central issue to oust Trump is the more likely genesis. Very early on (Jan/Feb 2020) everything the Trum…

> Before I get accused of being a conservative or a Trumpie…I’m not and far far from it. Your comment history betrays you.

No it doesn’t. I am a classic liberal and an independent and my comment history reflects that.

Just because I don’t hold the established dogmatic progressive opinions on every topic doesn’t mean I am conservative or supported Trump. Don’t make politics a religion.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#147

Post by JohnTHaller »

kcplate wrote: post #146
JohnTHaller wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Before I get accused of being a conservative or a Trumpie…I’m not and far far from it. Your comment history betrays you.

No it doesn’t. I am a classic liberal and an independent and my comment history reflects that. Just because I don’t hold the established dogmatic progressive opinions on every topic doesn’t mean I am conservative or supported Trump. Don’t make politics a religion.

In a quick browse last night there was anti-Fauci rhetoric, comments about Marxism cities in California, incorrect information about mask effectiveness and anti-mask sentiments, climate change denial-ism, Covid misinformation, etc. In relation to what we're talking about here:

> I suspect that if this omicron had emerged in 2018 at least with the symptoms and lack of severe disease that we have seen so far…it would likely have been described as a virulent common cold and may have gotten an occasional news mention, but zero public and government panic.

This is so wholly inaccurate, it's beyond the pale. Our average daily death rate from Omicron has already exceeded Delta. Omicron 'seems' milder overall due to the high level of vaccinations which prevent hospitalization and death and decrease transmission. If Omicron came out first, our overall death rate would be far beyond the 870,000 US deaths we've seen so far. And there would have been far more refrigerated morgue trucks at the hospital down the street from me in the initial wave.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#148

Post by Ekaros »

codyb wrote: post #42
hammock wrote: post #2

Is it really a public health nightmare? What data is there to show that vaccine passports are effective at reducing spread or hospitalizations?

I for one really enjoy the vaccine mandate in NYC. I feel much more comfortable knowing that if I catch it going out (seems likely), I'll be unlikely to spread it to anyone unvaccinated causing serious disease. Of course I'm also boosted and got my flu shot (and do it every year), so I'm probably already more conscientious living in NYC than many. If someone uses a fake to get in... well... there's only so much I can…

You should not really care about people who aren't vaccinated by choice. They have made their own decision and are ready to take the risk. And I'm all for giving them the opportunity.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#149

Post by kcplate »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #147
kcplate wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn’t. I am a classic liberal and an independent and my comment history reflects that. Just because I don’t hold the established dogmatic progressive opinions on every topic doesn’t mean I am conservative or supported Trump. Don’t make politics a religion.

In a quick browse last night there was anti-Fauci rhetoric, comments about Marxism cities in California, incorrect information about mask effectiveness and anti-mask sentiments, climate change denial-ism, Covid misinformation, etc. In relation to what we're talking about here: > I suspect that if this omicron had emerged in 2018 at least with the symptoms and lack of severe disease that we have seen so far…it would l…

Ahh yes, because I am critical of Fauci, masking, and the politicization of the vaccines…all sacred dogma to the left, I am a conservative trumpie.

This smacks of a “believe exactly what my church believes or you are going to hell you evil sinner” Zealotry at its finest.

As for your comments about the deaths attributed to omicron… post some statistics. Because what you are saying here doesn’t jive with what I am reading AND more importantly doesn’t jive with what a lot of countries are doing in regards to Omicron. Most notably and recently being Denmark.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#150

Post by JohnTHaller »

kcplate wrote: post #149
JohnTHaller wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a quick browse last night there was anti-Fauci rhetoric, comments about Marxism cities in California, incorrect information about mask effectiveness and anti-mask sentiments, climate change denial-ism, Covid misinformation, etc. In relation to what we're talking about here: > I suspect that if this omicron had emerged in 2018 at least with the symptoms and lack of severe disease that we have seen so far…it would l…

Ahh yes, because I am critical of Fauci, masking, and the politicization of the vaccines…all sacred dogma to the left, I am a conservative trumpie. This smacks of a “believe exactly what my church believes or you are going to hell you evil sinner” Zealotry at its finest. As for your comments about the deaths attributed to omicron… post some statistics. Because what you are saying here doesn’t jive with what I am read…

It's not dogma. You post factually incorrect 'opinions' pushed by the right. You think 'cloth masks are useless', while science disagrees. A decently fitted cloth mask is far more effective then nothing, but not as effective as a surgical mask, which is not as effective as as N95. As for the death rates 'doesn’t jive with what I am reading', what the heck are you reading? Even the Fox News owned Wall Street Journal reported on Omicron deaths exceeding Delta [1]. This isn't some surprise or hidden statistic where reputable sources disagree.

The overall lower deaths and hospitalizations due to Omicron are due to the vaccines. Generally, if you're vaccinated and boostered, your case of Omicron is relatively mild. Though not always, as my sister's Father-in-law found out winding up with afib in the hospital. If you're unvaccinated, you're not so lucky. Currently 2,000-3,000 daily deaths in the last 7 days in the US as per the CDC [2]. And that's with ~64% of the US population fully vaccinated. If this happened in 2018 with none of the population vaccinated, no knowledge of the spread or how to prevent it, etc... it would have been very bad.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-de...

[2] https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_totaldeaths

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