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Militarized Dolphins Protect Almost a Quarter of the US Nuclear Stockpile

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Re: Militarized Dolphins Protect Almost a Quarter of the US Nuclear Stockpile

#141

Post by dsq »

signa11 wrote: post #125
dsq wrote: post #81

This, together the news that North Korea also has weaponized marine mammals, makes me more saddened than from the usual dismal news we hear. Even the primal innocent are being roped into our primate rivalries. It gets even worse, as each side in such an umderwater war will blast away every cetacean it detects, just in case.

''' Even the primal innocent are being roped into our primate rivalries. ''' what's your opinion of say, horses used in olden times (heck till about WW-I, quite extensively) in battle ?

The accounts of horses in war are quite horrific, and their replacement by machines in the role of war transports is gratifying.

Re: Militarized Dolphins Protect Almost a Quarter of the US Nuclear Stockpile

#142

Post by loeg »

maccard wrote: post #137
bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some people I have met, the answer seems to be yes. There are definitely people that would rather spend their mindshare improving the animal condition than the human condition.

> rather spend their mindshare improving the animal condition than the human condition. How does arming dolphins improve the human condition?

Someone could make a compelling argument that US' global military dominance imposes a kind of Pax Americana that is net beneficial to the human condition, and this is one limb of that military dominance.

Re: Militarized Dolphins Protect Almost a Quarter of the US Nuclear Stockpile

#143

Post by Emma_Goldman »

antris wrote: post #139
Emma_Goldman wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This made me laugh. Sabotage, border clashes and airstrikes happen all the time without constituting acts of war that give casus belli to their target. A basic legal condition of a just war is that it is proportionate and embarked upon as a last resort: launching a war because a dolphin you trained was killed is neither of those, as sad as it might be.

I didn't talk about casus belli, you're just making stuff up. Sure, things happen all the time without a war breaking out. But it's not like you can "just kill" or "just attack" without repercussions. That's ridiculous thought. It's similar to saying "what's the reason to have a security guard in the shop, when you can just take a pistol and kill him". Security isn't about having an impenetrable defense; such a thing…

The phrase 'an act of war' means an act which intends to and/or actually does give the target casus belli. I took it for granted that you knew that.

See, for example, the OED reference:

'An act by one nation intended to initiate or provoke a war with another nation; an act considered sufficient cause for war.'

https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20...

Re: Militarized Dolphins Protect Almost a Quarter of the US Nuclear Stockpile

#144

Post by dsq »

adolph wrote: post #123
dsq wrote: post #81

This, together the news that North Korea also has weaponized marine mammals, makes me more saddened than from the usual dismal news we hear. Even the primal innocent are being roped into our primate rivalries. It gets even worse, as each side in such an umderwater war will blast away every cetacean it detects, just in case.

Is there something about cetaceans that saddens more than canidae, columbidae, equidae, or "sapiens?"

For better or for worse, horses and dogs have been alongside humans in peace and war for millenia and are adapted specifically for that. They are even classified as domestic/farm animals. I hope that current K9s do not strap bombs on dogs.

Re: Militarized Dolphins Protect Almost a Quarter of the US Nuclear Stockpile

#145

Post by formvoltron »

chipsa wrote: post #130
poulsbohemian wrote: post #19

This isn't exactly a secret or new information... it was pretty well known when I lived on the peninsula 10+ years ago (thus the username, Poulsbohemian...). There's a state park right near the Hood Canal bridge where it isn't uncommon to watch the submarines come and go in and out of the canal. Always a bit surreal to push your kids on the swings while watching a first strike weapon capable of destroying the world p…

Second strike weapon. It is supposed to be able to survive someone else's first strike. First strike weapons can't survive someone else's first strike. It's part of the whole "assured destruction" thing: doesn't matter if you hit us first, you're still going to end up a self lit parking lot afterwards.

The obvious problem with mutual assured destruction is that an insane person could get ahold of the weapons, launch first, and kill all of current and future humanity.

How about not strike back, just try to survive & show future generations of the world how to be. Go live in that other country that isn't radioactive.

Re: Militarized Dolphins Protect Almost a Quarter of the US Nuclear Stockpile

#146

Post by at_a_remove »

w-ll wrote: post #9

All these links and no 'Johnny Mnemonic' reference. Takes place in 2021. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Mnemonic_(film)

I watched it last year on January 17th, because that is when the movie was. I did like the conceit that you would need something like a dolphin, with a brain where much of the hardware was dedicated to processing sonar, to process the somewhat similar data from the SQUID.

Re: Militarized Dolphins Protect Almost a Quarter of the US Nuclear Stockpile

#147

Post by slingnow »

formvoltron wrote: post #145
chipsa wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Second strike weapon. It is supposed to be able to survive someone else's first strike. First strike weapons can't survive someone else's first strike. It's part of the whole "assured destruction" thing: doesn't matter if you hit us first, you're still going to end up a self lit parking lot afterwards.

The obvious problem with mutual assured destruction is that an insane person could get ahold of the weapons, launch first, and kill all of current and future humanity. How about not strike back, just try to survive & show future generations of the world how to be. Go live in that other country that isn't radioactive.

Those don't exist, hence why the OP didn't refer to them. They were referring to something from the actual article.

Re: Militarized Dolphins Protect Almost a Quarter of the US Nuclear Stockpile

#148

Post by toss1 »

maccard wrote: post #137
bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some people I have met, the answer seems to be yes. There are definitely people that would rather spend their mindshare improving the animal condition than the human condition.

> rather spend their mindshare improving the animal condition than the human condition. How does arming dolphins improve the human condition?

Did you read the article? They aren't arming the dolphins.

The dolphins are scouts for intruding mines and infiltrators - they find something strange, they come back and report it, and are sent out with a buoy to mark it, or attach to the intruder to float them for capture.

Re: Militarized Dolphins Protect Almost a Quarter of the US Nuclear Stockpile

#150

Post by slingnow »

pelasaco wrote: post #53

"For protection against enemy divers, dolphins will swim up to the infiltrator, bump into them and place a buoy device on their back or a limb using their mouth. The buoy then drags the outed diver to the surface for easy capture." I mean come on, "enemy divers" will just kill the dolphins or avoid contact with them..

I love that you think a human can "just kill" a dolphin on their home turf. And not just any dolphin, a trained dolphin.

And I'd love to hear an explanation about how a human just "avoids contact" with a sea-based animal with built-in echolocation.

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