iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#141

Post by Newky » Sat, Sep 17, 2011, 5:55 PM UTC

thesz wrote: post #108

Newky wrote: post #26

As someone who spends almost all day either in vim/commandline mode or web browsing, I want to make the point about the unix pipe point, and that with gui's this is impossible. Its not even the fact that it would require a lot more effort to sort and format a list of 100,000 names into our predefined pattern, but more the fact that the power of the command line is lost. I find as I'm programming, I gravitate towards…

>I want to make the point about the unix pipe point, and that with gui's this is impossible. There is a GUI programming paradigm, called Stream Processors. One of earlier Haskell GUI libraries was developed over those processors. Take a look at Fudgets: http://www.altocumulus.org/Fudgets/ You can pipe them, you can arrange them into DAGs and trees (as in DirectShow or Gstreamer). You can create cyclic structures. I h…

Sorry, my wording was incorrect. I should not have used the word impossible, thank you for the resources you have provided, my point was more that with the standard gui, it makes things easier in a pick up and play way but any sustained time using an application, the tradeoff between being what people describe as "easy to use" and being extensible and streamable becomes very useful.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#142

Post by pointyhat » Sun, Sep 18, 2011, 10:28 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #122

pointyhat wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is precisely it. Which brings me to the point here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3003812 "We're slowly being led into paying incrementally for utility computing on a device we actually paid up front for". If it's no longer a computer, it's an open market to exploit. We are consumers, not users any more.

I really don't understand your point. How is any of this to the detriment of the average user who uses the iPad to browse the net/read ebooks/watch movies/listen to music/as a digital photo frame? The average user doesn't need to use the iPad as a computer. If the problem is pricing, then that indeed is an issue with tablets, but then Apple's products have always been high priced.

It's at the detriment of the user when the iPad is no longer vogue and they wish to retain their books, movies and music.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#143

Post by spiffworks » Sun, Sep 18, 2011, 4:24 PM UTC

gavinlynch wrote: post #101

spiffworks wrote: post #93

Eh, I can understand the outrage the author feels. I used to be so pissed off when people were contented with their iOS devices. But I have my Nexus One, I can hack the hell out of it, it is state of the art, and I don't really care what anybody else uses. If people find that trading freedom for convenience is acceptable, then that is their choice to make.

You used to be pissed off when consumers chose a product that fit their needs? This is an attitude I just can't understand.

It was just that these people were happy with having limits on their computers. I guess the difference in mindset is that while normal people want computers to be appliances, we want everything to be computers.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#144

Post by prof_hobart » Mon, Sep 19, 2011, 12:52 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #63

onosendai wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the parent, or the article is saying. Don't turn this into some sort of class warfare for the sake of trolling. The ability of an OS or application to expose data in order to allow you to manipulate it as you see fit, does not preclude it being user-friendly and straighforward to use. That funcionality might very well be hidden away, but available if you're inclined to use it. The point that is being…

But it does. Or at least, it does in every way that we've yet to imagine. What the author of the article suggests would be not "anti-programmer" are necessarily "anti-user". Breaking everything down into composable components and forcing the user to compose even simple, everyday procedures before being able to use them? How terribly difficult and exclusive to techies only! Similarly, he suggests that the only way for…

I get your point (and I don't think that the vast majority of iOS users care one jot about pretty much anything that the article is talking abount), but there are ways of making things "programmer-friendly" without sacrificing usability.

Take MacOS and AppleScript. I doubt more than a tiny fraction of MacOS users even know that AppleScript exists. Its existence certainly doesn't get in the way of usability. But it's there for people who want to use it, and they can use it to chain GUI apps together, or to automate regular tasks.