Live data from Hacker News

Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

thomask.sdf.org

141–150 of 231 posts

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#141

Former MSFTy, don’t bother wasting your time giving feedback. Nobody cares, those that cared left. Microsoft has a weird culture, very top down, very passive aggressive between departments. For a brief while I would diligently prepare bugs for the dog food software. I would even walk over to visit people responsible for it and chat about it. Even for software where ‘zero bugs’ was important they’d just delete a whole…

VS Code and GitHub will hard carry Azure if need be

Azure is vastly bigger than VS Code and GitHub. In my opinion the monetization needed for a hard carry would risk their popularity. There is potential for interesting synergies but there has always been potential, just ask Ray Ozzie how that went.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#142
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, because Nintendo is such a great example of openness towards FOSS communities.

Is it sarcasm, or they are really open to FOSS communities, pjmlp? Tone deaf reader here.

Sarcasm, as if switching from Microsoft to Nintendo was any better.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#143
post #57

The Feedback hub... A few things are completely a dog's breakfast in the Windows 10 world - and their beyond hideous XBox with Windows App Store is one of them. I tried to file some feedback about the experience using the Hub but it felt like a wholly inappropriate tool for the job. How do you tell someone they just need to delete everything they've done and start afresh? Because that's the only thing that could fix…

Install Windows 10 LTSC. Minimal bloatware, no MS edge, no xbox game store, no windows store, no bullshit. Its the version everyone deserved but only hospitals etc got.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, but forever open issues doesn’t give any value too. Because you don’t know if this issue still applicable for latest version of app/library. I think stalled issue should be closed, especially minor one.

There is a huge difference between forever and 7 days of inactivity.

Especially when it’s the developer that is inactive. Like, we’ve ignored you for 7 days and now we have committed to ignoring you forever. If I find this I won’t even bother filing a report. I get that we’re not owed attention, but they’re not owed bug reports. As a dev I have won’t fixed issues due to lack of dev time. I think the problem is when it’s paid software, or an open source project connected to paid software. There seems to be a push of testing onto the users which is disastrous when combined with a policy of ignoring them. Microsoft went through a period of aiming for two testers for each dev. Post my tenure it seems that devs are supposed to the test themselves.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#145
post #36

I also spent quite a lot of time during the Windows 10 preview phase, and a while after release, diligently reporting bugs, and voting on well thought-out feature requests. But after noticing that none of these bugs ever got any attention, and how the Feedback Hub was mostly just noise, I started to wonder why I even did free work for a multi-billion dollar company, on my own time. Right around that period I switched…

Just want to say that the time you spend reporting bugs on Linux environments is not in vain but much appreciated. I try to give back to the community and spend time fixing issues people have for the Linux desktops MATE and XFCE, at least a few times a year.

Really? FOSS software very often has the same problems in this regard that Microsoft does. Almost every time I have an issue with something I will find it already in their bug tracker, several years old, at best ignored and at worst closed by the stale bot.

In my estimation it is roughly the same as it is with Microsoft: if it doesn't directly affect a developer's workflow it will not be fixed and they're annoyed you even brought it up.

The big difference of course being that Microsoft expects you to pay money for this treatment.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#146

> somebody at Microsoft edited a critical comment that I made earlier this week to simply read “hello there”, still under my name Moderators on web forums everywhere need to learn that this kind of editing, when done without a publicly visible indication that the post was edited against the nominal author's will, is unacceptable. I've gotten into this argument on Stack Exchange in the past (although fortunately on St…

I'm surprised it didn't kill Reddit when Steve Huffman pulled that stunt on the site: https://old.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/5frg1n/tifu_...

Oh hey, it's the event that made me leave reddit:) Yeah, I'm not sure why that didn't prompt a mass exodus. One thing that I've discovered by talking to people in real life is that apparently a lot of people just don't know that it happened.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#147
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, because Nintendo is such a great example of openness towards FOSS communities.

Is it sarcasm, or they are really open to FOSS communities, pjmlp? Tone deaf reader here.

Nintendo is notoriously litigious and hyper-sensitive to IP infringement. It's a real shame considering the cultural impact their games have had.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#148

> W11 taskbar is missing several key pieces of functionality which have incentivised new users to get into Feedback Hub and cast votes. By far the biggest and most controversial submission is about having multiple documents open in the same app. Actually the same reason for me to give feedback during W11 beta. Liked the beta as it gave me access to WSLg, but the productivity loss of the taskbar being useless made me…

It's different (IMHO better) on Mac, even though it looks superficially similar.

On Mac, there is conceptually a two-level hierarchy of apps and windows. Every app maintains its own stack of windows. You can switch between apps with a single click (or keyboard command) and then switch between windows in that app's window stack if you want to bring a different one to the top. So a single click och keypress lets you switch between any pair of windows that are topmost in their respective apps. (There is also a keyboard shortcut to switch windows within an app.)

On Windows, you can't switch to apps (only to windows) but the windows are grouped by app into a hierarchical menu, so every time you switch window from the taskbar it takes two clicks and you are forced to hunt through a list of thumbnails.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#149
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been predicting "The Year of the Linux Desktop" forever now, too. Truth is, for some that'll never happen, and for others (like me) it happened many years ago.

No one cares about the desktop any more, and linux won the mobile race, in some fashion.

Linux did not win the mobile race in any sense that matters.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#150

Former MSFTy, don’t bother wasting your time giving feedback. Nobody cares, those that cared left. Microsoft has a weird culture, very top down, very passive aggressive between departments. For a brief while I would diligently prepare bugs for the dog food software. I would even walk over to visit people responsible for it and chat about it. Even for software where ‘zero bugs’ was important they’d just delete a whole…

> Former MSFTy, don’t bother wasting your time giving feedback. Nobody cares, those that cared left.

What you're describing does not comport with my experience there.

Personally, I ensured that every issue filed on GitHub was triaged (read, replied if necessary, de-duped if necessary, labeled appropriately, assigned a severity/priority) and that all feedback items from the Visual Studio feedback system that applied to my product area was either (a) de-duped to GitHub and given the same treatment, or (b) dealt with in that system because it might have had some info that could constitute private data being leaked (sometimes I'd create a representative issue on GitHub and de-dupe to that one if appropriate).

What I'm describing is actually routine for most PMs and engineers in the group I was in, and that's still the case today. I won't claim that it's perfect or that everyone who files an issue will have their bugs dealt with immediately, but I've had several community members give positive feedback about the whole thing and talk about how it's like night and day compared to previous eras at the company.

> Even for software where ‘zero bugs’ was important they’d just delete a whole bunch of bugs and see if any bounce (come back). Eventually people get sick of refilling so they get to zero but bounce by exhausting the very people eying time help them.

This is ridiculous and I sincerely hope it's not happening outside of small groups (who should stop right now). I never saw this happen. We'd deprecate some older things and then close associated bugs as not applicable, but declaring bankruptcy on a bunch of legit bugs would be unheard of in the group I worked with. If you were caught doing that you'd be in some deep shit, since it's a violation of the trust your community places in you to be a responsible caretaker of the software they rely on.

> Enough social media pressure may end up risking a line item in a PMs yearly goals.

Social media pressure is a thing, sadly, but also not that much of a thing. Only in rare cases did something exploding on twitter or whatever cause action on our end. I'm also curious where in Microsoft a single PM's line items are treated with that much relative importance. This whole notion of "PMs dictate and devs make it happen" is bizarre to me because figuring out what to do next was always a collaboration and careful evaluation of tradeoffs across both disciplines. Again, it wasn't perfect and there's much I wish was different, but fundamentally it was sound and constructive. Any of my line items as a PM wouldn't somehow get re-prioritized just because someone yelled about it on social media.

Anyways, I'm sorry you had a bad time with what seems like it may have been a bad group. If what you're saying is true, I hope that changes for the group you were with.

Post reply on HN