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How to quit like a boss

jmsbrdy.com

141–150 of 171 posts

Re: How to quit like a boss

#141
post #65

This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…

This seems a US-centric view. One or more months is the normal contractual notice period at least in the UK and Europe. The hiring market adapts. If you have reasonable relations with your teammates it might make sense to be less of a dick during a longer notice period. Obviously it's not mandatory but everyone will probably have a nicer time.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#142
post #65

This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…

Could not agree more. The company is not, can not, and will not ever be loyal to you. Ever. They will fire you, lay you off, relieve you of duty instantly for any reason or no reason at all. They've lobbied for laws to do exactly that (in the US anyway). And they will keep information asymmetrical in their favor. No. Matter. What. In the long run they will be dishonest with you, they will lie to your face, and they w…

I agree 100%. Even if you have a great boss who looks after you, they can be replaced or their boss can overrule them.

Like that quote from Peaky Blinders “Big fucks small. Always, actually.”

It’s a business arrangement, not a family or a friendship. Hold them to the contract. If they ask for more, tell them you’ll need compensation for it.

If they ask you to stick around, have an excuse ready. Don’t lie, because you don’t need to. “I can’t stay another 2 weeks I have a preexisting obligation.” “No, i can’t say what is it’s personal.”

I’ve been through 6 reorgs and been laid off several times. You take it personally at first, but then gain some clarity. The “family” stuff, the promises are all worth nothing. But once you know that it’s ok. You go in with eyes wide open.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#144
post #65

This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…

Could not agree more. The company is not, can not, and will not ever be loyal to you. Ever. They will fire you, lay you off, relieve you of duty instantly for any reason or no reason at all. They've lobbied for laws to do exactly that (in the US anyway). And they will keep information asymmetrical in their favor. No. Matter. What. In the long run they will be dishonest with you, they will lie to your face, and they w…

Totally agreed. I once gave an ultra long notice because I was going to grad school in six months. I was part of the mass layoffs the next week. Best lesson I ever learned.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#145
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could not agree more. The company is not, can not, and will not ever be loyal to you. Ever. They will fire you, lay you off, relieve you of duty instantly for any reason or no reason at all. They've lobbied for laws to do exactly that (in the US anyway). And they will keep information asymmetrical in their favor. No. Matter. What. In the long run they will be dishonest with you, they will lie to your face, and they w…

I agree with the parent but I disagree with you. I am a manager in a large tech company and we care about our employees. We will not fire/lay them off/relieve them of their duty for any reason or not reason. We treat them as we expect to be treated. We will support them if they have some unusual circumstances. We do this because it is the right thing to do, and because it makes business sense. These are not mutually…

I hear you, but I have been a consultant for very large companies (even mutual insurance cos, with basically zero profit motive), and at the end of they day they will make decisions for the company and not for the person. As in, we got the CEO to fire some of his direct reports that had been working at the company 20+ years. And then it rolled downhill. Don't get romantic with your employer unless you own the company (or at least 51% of the voting shares.)

Re: How to quit like a boss

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people that will dismiss this as overly cynical because of the presentation. But it is true. In a big company, the VP of whatever department may feel bad about a layoff before Christmas, but they don't know you personally, and whatever numbers or major investors are motivating this don't lie. In a small company, the same is true. They might wait until things are hopeless instead of trending to hopeless, but…

Agreed with everything you and OP wrote until your very last line: “ If your company needs you beyond that, contract billing should start at 5x your salaried rate, 20 hour minimum.” Now that’s being a dick. Looking out for yourself does not mean being a dick.

That's what I did and a previous employer occasionally has me do some maintenance work and are glad to pay that rate, especially if I get on it quickly.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people that will dismiss this as overly cynical because of the presentation. But it is true. In a big company, the VP of whatever department may feel bad about a layoff before Christmas, but they don't know you personally, and whatever numbers or major investors are motivating this don't lie. In a small company, the same is true. They might wait until things are hopeless instead of trending to hopeless, but…

Agreed with everything you and OP wrote until your very last line: “ If your company needs you beyond that, contract billing should start at 5x your salaried rate, 20 hour minimum.” Now that’s being a dick. Looking out for yourself does not mean being a dick.

This is not being a dick. Before I left a certain job, I had my supervisor (also owner of the company) tell me exactly this. She once quit a job and did exactly this. And was proud of it. Even if I'm happy I no longer work for her, she was completely right about this move.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#148
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could not agree more. The company is not, can not, and will not ever be loyal to you. Ever. They will fire you, lay you off, relieve you of duty instantly for any reason or no reason at all. They've lobbied for laws to do exactly that (in the US anyway). And they will keep information asymmetrical in their favor. No. Matter. What. In the long run they will be dishonest with you, they will lie to your face, and they w…

I agree with the parent but I disagree with you. I am a manager in a large tech company and we care about our employees. We will not fire/lay them off/relieve them of their duty for any reason or not reason. We treat them as we expect to be treated. We will support them if they have some unusual circumstances. We do this because it is the right thing to do, and because it makes business sense. These are not mutually…

> Being ruthless to your employees doesn't make business sense.

Until it does.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#149
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could not agree more. The company is not, can not, and will not ever be loyal to you. Ever. They will fire you, lay you off, relieve you of duty instantly for any reason or no reason at all. They've lobbied for laws to do exactly that (in the US anyway). And they will keep information asymmetrical in their favor. No. Matter. What. In the long run they will be dishonest with you, they will lie to your face, and they w…

I agree with the parent but I disagree with you. I am a manager in a large tech company and we care about our employees. We will not fire/lay them off/relieve them of their duty for any reason or not reason. We treat them as we expect to be treated. We will support them if they have some unusual circumstances. We do this because it is the right thing to do, and because it makes business sense. These are not mutually…

> I am a manager in a large tech company and we care about our employees.

This is the problem with management roles. Managers opportunity to find new job is so low they are forced to think they are part of the company. The company does not think the same. The same is not true for IC devs, this may not be for long, but currently this the case. I hope people be honest at least over internet.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#150
The simple frame of mind you should have when letting people go or leaving yourself is that it's a small world and you might end up working together, interacting, meeting at a conference, etc. in a different context at some point in the future. So, don't burn any bridges.

An employment relation is a business relation ship with some contractual obligations and rights. It's all spelled out in the employment contract. Anything on top of that is the personal integrity of the employee and the reputation of the company. It's a mutual interest to do the right thing on both sides and behave in a way that is consistent with maintaining a good reputation.

For employees: your actions at company A might cause you problems at company B. People talk. I've seen people torpedo their careers by basically getting a well deserved reputation for not being entirely reliable/trustworthy. Anger issues in particular can be a problem. If you have them, learn to deal with them. I've actually advised friends to not hire certain people based on my negative experience with them. I've also done the opposite and helped people out by introducing them to their future employer. My own career changes each involved people in my network recommending me or introducing me. So, don't burn any bridges even if your employer treats you badly. Keep it friendly and professional.

For employers: people talk about their employers both inside and outside the company. If your reputation suffers because of how you treat your own employees, it becomes a problem for recruiting. The more disgruntled ex-employees you have, the harder it becomes to recover from that. You can offer more money to compensate but your actions will cost you. Worse, your own employees might start voting with their feet if they see you treat people badly. It's usually your best people that leave first when that happens. Because they have options and good reputations. If the A's leave, you end up with a lot of B's hiring C's.

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