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The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

scientificamerican.com

141–150 of 206 posts

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#141
post #29
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What were the main factors that prevented the roman empire from having an industrial revolution? Is there a single technology, that if sent back in time, would have sustained their empire? (Steam engine? Hydropower improvements? Standardized measurements for tighter tolerances?)

I've seen the argument made that the major factor was slavery. In general, they had a cheap source of unskilled labor. Major advances in industrialization were often driven, in no small part, by high labor costs.

I see a strong counter-argument in their advanced knowledge (and industrial-scale use) of hydro power. Are you familiar with the Barbegal mills?

What I think could have been a considerable factor that is rarely discussed is how "cosmopolitan" power structures appear in the late empire: someone makes an exceptional military career, gathers loyalty in the legions currently stationed in whatever corner of the empire he happens to serve, a few years later he's one of the contenders for emperor in the next civil war. But the economic development of the regions the "players" are associated with (if they even are associated with some specific region) doesn't seem to be a factor at all in that game.

A few centuries later feudalism and successors had military power (and with it political power) tied much closer to actual land and its economic power. This certainly did not directly lead to politics trying to foster industrial progress, but I can easily imagine how one form of stability (some hierarchy of lords stable for generations) could set up the prerequisites in a way the other form of stability (one seemingly eternal super-state but in an endless state of internal strife as the only form of meaningful achievement) would not.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#142
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patreon has gone from helpful support by a few to an exclusive club.

For the donation of a single dollar, you are given access to all of his videos. I would not describe that as "exclusive," although I understand what you are saying.

Why does Patreon block prepaid cards?

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of his videos are behind a Patreon paywall these days, as far as I can tell. He's still working on the Antikythera mechanism, it's just only visible to patrons.

Patreon has gone from helpful support by a few to an exclusive club.

What an absurd posture. HN is full of people endlessly harping about the shitty quality of free, ad supported SEO-rigged mill content that sucks, but then a site that allows often hard working creators to ask for very modest donations so that you can view their material is labeled as "exclusive" and implicitly elitist. The people who try to make some money on Patreon don't owe any special favors to children without credit cards or to people in other countries without applicable payment methods at their disposal. They owe themselves a living, and their sponsors a decent presentation, nothing more. There are still plenty of free alternatives out there, instead of harping about one person hoping to earn some money for all the work they put into their videos/creativity.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#144
post #122
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Havent you noticed that people who see dark future post and tell it more often the past 30 years, than people who think "it will all be just fine"? I remember the late 90s doom and "oh no millenium 2000" gloom predictions, and 2012 nostradamus end of the world maya calendar the end is near. I read about the 80s cold war "will go hot nuclear any time" and can be seen in movies like Terminator. US will not collapse, no…

I was pretty optimistic in 1990, but since then there is new data. Donald Trump was elected president and led a violent insurrection against the government based on a transparent lie with, so far, no negative consequences. If he runs in 2024 he will win the Republican nomination. Unless the Democrats suspend the filibuster to pass voting rights legislation, he will almost certainly be elected president again (because…

To me this may imply a sort of built-in "failsafe" against political and economic hegemonies that is a part of human nature. This may be useful to ensure that political systems do not last forever so at least some part of humanity is able to explore alternate ways to construct and operate societies.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#145

The Antikythera mechanism gives me nightmares. Just as the suggestion that a lack of transmissions from intelligent life means the existence of a great filter. The Antikythera mechanism is a strong indicator of technological regression in human beings. Perhaps more terrifying is the fact that it is not the first time we've regressed or collapsed. The mysterious Late Bronze Age Collapse is another example, https://en.…

And yet even in antiquity there were people thinking that the nature of their own existence was a recreation of the past from within the future.

We are actually performing early versions of such recreations as we speed towards both destroying ourselves and developing a lifeform that makes us obsolete, and yet many still don't examine the present moment against the past and future.

As for the Bronze Age collapse - in Alexandria around the 2nd century BCE following the conquest of Alexander the Great you had a ton of cultures of the Mediterranean comparing notes on their respective histories.

Most of those notes have been lost to us, but we have the general conclusions they drew which was that an Exodus from Egypt had occurred, it had been many different people and not just one, and they had conquered most of the Mediterranean.

And indeed, there's striking parallels between Ramses II, the Lybian appearing Pharoh with 50 sons, and stories like the Lybian king Danaus as part of Diodorus Siculus's Exodus fleeing Egypt from Aegyptus, his brother with 50 sons.

We know Ramses II captured many different peoples in battle, and that many of the groups captured later appeared as sea peoples, initially allied together with Lybia against Egypt during Ramses II's successor.

It only remains a mystery because of the reluctance of one group to think things occurred at all different to what's written in a single book scribed centuries later, and the reluctance of anyone not in that group to entertain that aspects of what's written in that book are a continuation of an oral history of actual events (though notably altered).

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#146
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had nothing like the Modern age's science. I can't imagine any reason for it not appearing there given enough time, but they didn't have the dispassionate questioning of every theory and total submission to empiricism that are fundamental to science today. Math advanced a huge amount during the Medieval age. They simply didn't have good tools for calculations, and nearly all of the Modern Age's math was based on…

You are giving way too much credit to science in the early phase of industrial revolution. Science has been extremely important in technological development from late 1800s onwards, but the most critical leaps of late 1700s and early 1800s had little to do with Newton-style science. Instead, they mostly about engineering improvements, combined with a newly widespread social attitude that technology actually can be si…

Any good references you'd recommend for learning more about this?

I read about Oliver Heaviside and that helped shed some light on engineering improvements from that period of time. He was around a bit later in the 1800s, though.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#147

I am ashamed that we think so little of ancient cultures. they weren't stupid. they were as smart as we are, perhaps smarter. they were far fewer in number than we are today, and the library of technology they could draw from to solve a problem was much smaller for them, is all. nothing about the Antikythera mechanism is complex; the math is simple and the construction is that of a machine made many times and made sl…

I'm not sure in general "scientists" do what you suggest. Not all scientists are required to take them, but there are courses in the history of science. I took two semesters and it was quite enlightening. The texts we used were replete with admonishments against the sort of chauvinism you suggest.

At the same time, if we discover some feat of engineering or scrap of insight that was heretofore thought unknown in the period it was created in, it's worth noting: it permits us to revise what we know about the investigators of the time and what they actually knew to begin with.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#148
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the donation of a single dollar, you are given access to all of his videos. I would not describe that as "exclusive," although I understand what you are saying.

Why does Patreon block prepaid cards?

Probably some kind of interpretation of AML obligations. One could setup their own Patreon and pay themselves via cards in ways that banks, payment processors, and possibly law enforcement would rather you didn’t.

I come across this a lot when trying to pay for things with Cash App or Coinbase Card, as they are both classed as prepaid cards for reasons I don’t understand.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#149

I am ashamed that we think so little of ancient cultures. they weren't stupid. they were as smart as we are, perhaps smarter. they were far fewer in number than we are today, and the library of technology they could draw from to solve a problem was much smaller for them, is all. nothing about the Antikythera mechanism is complex; the math is simple and the construction is that of a machine made many times and made sl…

The ancient Greeks did the same thing. They believed that the walls of Mycenae were built by cyclops because they couldn't imagine how their forefathers built them - and so they dubbed it cyclopean masonry. Ancient aliens for ancient Greeks.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#150
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are giving way too much credit to science in the early phase of industrial revolution. Science has been extremely important in technological development from late 1800s onwards, but the most critical leaps of late 1700s and early 1800s had little to do with Newton-style science. Instead, they mostly about engineering improvements, combined with a newly widespread social attitude that technology actually can be si…

> The scientists did occasionally deliver something valuable, often in fact paradigm-changing, but importantly, this only became very relevant around the turn of 20th century. James Watt was only able to build efficient steam engines because Joseph Black discovered latent heat in 1761. Without steam engines, there’s no industrial revolution.

Whilst Hero's aeolipile is incredibly wasteful, the ancient world did have the right conceptual basis for steam engines to have developed.
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