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Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

blog.libove.org

141–150 of 352 posts

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#141

> Bitcoin miners rarely use GPUs anymore, but ASICs Seeing the title and the conclusions, how can this be the case? Computationally they're not much behind ASICs per $, are much more broadly available to buy and are easier to sell when needed.

GPUs are used to mine cryptocurrencies other than Bitcoin.

And GPUs are better positioned to pivot at any point and mine something else or go on resale when profitability equations change.

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nvidia straight up just stopped selling any cards, declined all their client/customer base, and just put 100% of their global output to mining cryptocurrencies, I think it's a good chance nvidia can do a 50%+1 attack on both bitcoin and ethereum at the same time. Once they successfully do the attack, they can take over the blockchains and allocate all cryptocurrencies to themselves, cash out, and it'd probably reg…

Yeah, they could do that, but what most of these claims ("X could easily profit Y by doing 50%+1 attack") miss, is that once that attack has been made, who'd trade anything with the currency that was attacked? Lets say nvidia does "conquer" Bitcoin and have all the bitcoins, who'd in the right mind would continue to buy/sell Bitcoins after that? The market for Bitcoin would collapse faster than nvidia could excitedly…

Can such an attack be done without detection?

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of them artificially inflate the cost of hard drives instead of GPUs, totally not the same!

What's artificial about it?

The cryptocurrency is designed to demand storage for the sake of demanding storage (i.e. as proof of waste) rather than for any of the natural reasons for which people demand storage.

Thus artificial.

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#145

The article only attempts to show there's correlation, and ends up by saying "correlation doesn't imply causation, but maybe there's causation". So basically, we don't know. I'm not blaming the author, because determining causation is hard, and checking there's correlation between two variables can still be interesting, but the article falls short of answering the question.

They ran a pretty solid analysis of the subject. Not only do they look at correlation, but they regress out the trend line and show a correlation in the noise. Correlation of noise typically does imply a causal connection. They also look at correlation between GPUs that are used for mining and ones that are not and show that the correlation only holds for GPUs used in mining, so the case seems pretty tight. If you are just trying to poke holes in the analysis I would focus more on the possibility of there being other contributing factors that are more significant (i.g. supply chain issues). In any case the author was considerate enough to include the dataset and the python notebook so you can run subsequent analyses on your own. Some quick things worth trying: 1. )Weight both the price of Cryptocurrencies and the price of GPUs for Market Size. 2.) Add in other explanatory variables to try to find the relative contributions of different sources.

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nvidia straight up just stopped selling any cards, declined all their client/customer base, and just put 100% of their global output to mining cryptocurrencies, I think it's a good chance nvidia can do a 50%+1 attack on both bitcoin and ethereum at the same time. Once they successfully do the attack, they can take over the blockchains and allocate all cryptocurrencies to themselves, cash out, and it'd probably reg…

Yeah, they could do that, but what most of these claims ("X could easily profit Y by doing 50%+1 attack") miss, is that once that attack has been made, who'd trade anything with the currency that was attacked? Lets say nvidia does "conquer" Bitcoin and have all the bitcoins, who'd in the right mind would continue to buy/sell Bitcoins after that? The market for Bitcoin would collapse faster than nvidia could excitedly…

A 51% attack can only reverse a transaction anyway, it can’t arbitrarily take money from someone you haven’t transacted with. But they could get short exposure to btc/eth in the market, profit when it went down from the ensuing panic, and then sell the graphics cards to retail (there are other complications that make this unrealistic, of course.)

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they could do that, but what most of these claims ("X could easily profit Y by doing 50%+1 attack") miss, is that once that attack has been made, who'd trade anything with the currency that was attacked? Lets say nvidia does "conquer" Bitcoin and have all the bitcoins, who'd in the right mind would continue to buy/sell Bitcoins after that? The market for Bitcoin would collapse faster than nvidia could excitedly…

Can such an attack be done without detection?

No, the whole point of using a blockchain is to have a publicly verifiable ledger of all transactions. If anything goes wrong, there will be so many alarm bells ringing across the world that probably it'll be a hearable event for most people living in places that resembles modern civilization.

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#149
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you mention anything about the cloud, deep learning training on GPUs and the impact on the environment that has and the increasing costs of training and fine tuning your neural net, they won't care at all, they will still do it after all these years. As you know it is still a valid point.

Mining Dogecoins and solving protein folding add the same value to society after all.

Could we use protien folding calculations for proof of work?

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#150
post #72

I work in deep learning and had to camp out in front of a best buy to get my hands on some 3090s. A good portion of the people in line with me were crypto miners who were waiting to get more GPUs to add to their collection because they're making money on each one and as long as it's profitable it makes perfect sense for them to buy up more.

If nvidia straight up just stopped selling any cards, declined all their client/customer base, and just put 100% of their global output to mining cryptocurrencies, I think it's a good chance nvidia can do a 50%+1 attack on both bitcoin and ethereum at the same time. Once they successfully do the attack, they can take over the blockchains and allocate all cryptocurrencies to themselves, cash out, and it'd probably reg…

> they can take over the blockchains and allocate all cryptocurrencies to themselves, cash out

Assuming this was even possible, your plan has a fatal flaw.

Who the heck is going to buy the BTC back?

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