Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 448 posts

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#141

Post by greggman3 »

I love Tokyo but I know lots of Japanese people that love suburban America. They love the space.

I quick search suggests the average size house in Tokyo is 66sq meters where as in LA it's 167sq meters or nearly 2.5x larger. And that's just LA. My guess is plenty of other suburbia cities the average is even larger.

I lived in Tokyo for 15 years. My last place was 54sq meters. I like there are more options in sizes than most cities I think USA and I don't believe that everyone needs a huge place.

But, I so am envious of people who have space. Space for workshops, craft rooms, etc. My mom is into Love it or List it, and people have enormous houses with yards in suburbia. I'm jealous even though at the moment I prefer carless city lifestyles

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#142

Post by bedobi »

andi999 wrote: post #128
freediver wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A counter argument is that US has a very developed suburban living culture with families living in houses. And while obviously this is comfortable living, you then need a car to get to the city center. Having said that, I agree that nothing beats the walkability of European cities, quality of living wise. US has a lot to learn from that.

I thought a lot of people also live in houses in and around Tokyo.

They do, Tokyo is full of detached homes, and the people living in them don't need a car. (some have cars, some don't, but a car is not needed, and even those who have one, chances are they can't use them for things like grocery shopping etc even if they wanted to)

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#143

Post by dustintrex »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #100
cjblomqvist wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having 2-3 major automobile (cars, trucks, busses, etc) manufacturers in a country half (or less) the population of NYC probably explains why.

New York City proper (five boroughs) has a population of 8.4 million. Sweden has a population of 10.35 million. But yes, I agree with your sentiment about having high density of manufacturing in a particular segment will probably skew your policies towards it. This might explain why Munich is so rich, but has such poor mass transit compared to Berlin. What surprises me more is that big Japanese cities like Tokyo and…

Tokyo has an extensive network of raised expressways. They're just so extortionately priced (roughly $1/km) that nobody uses them unless they really have to, but since Tokyo is so crowded, they're jam-packed all the time anyway.

https://www.japanistry.com/shuto-expressway-explained/

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#144

Post by enaaem »

franciscop wrote: post #70
bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

I also live there and one interesting bit that, in retrospective is OBVIOUS, is that there are also no cars parked on the streets! Like, if you look at pictures or walk down the street it feels so pleasant for some reason but difficult to put your finger at it, until you realize there's no huge cars piling on the sides. I prefer European Architecture for downtown buildings, but the no cars bit generally overpowers th…

I believe it’s because Tokyo does not have public parking space. Parking lots are private and when you buy a car you have to proof you have access to a parking lot. Makes sense if you think about it. Land in cities is valuable, and the cost parking should be priced in the cost of car ownership.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#145

Post by deltaonefour »

devilsbabe wrote: post #134
deltaonefour wrote: post #4

I thought about getting a job there as a dev. However certain things like culture, low pay, the language, and making new friends has held me back. I really loved the city when I visited a couple years back. Does anyone live in Japan as a dev and not really know how to speak japanese? How has the experience been?

I've been working for a large US company in Tokyo for several years now. No need to know Japanese for work; I know a lot of people that speak it very poorly (though I wouldn't recommend that if you're staying here long term). The pay is good (~35M JPY/300K USD at L5) but there are very few companies with this level of compensation so the real cost is in the limited opportunities. Like everywhere, there's good and bad…

Are you in FAANG? That level of pay (300k) is also in the higher range for SV. Seems really rare to land such a role given that all the other reported salaries are around 60k. Would love to know if your situation is a fluke or if it's very possible for me to land such a role myself?

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#146

Post by 88840-8855 »

mrkentutbabi wrote: post #133
88840-8855 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the thing. It's a super great place when you are a tourist. I lived there and I saw the bad sides, too. To keep this amazing tidyness, order, extremely high quality of service, people go to their limits - with low pay and low perspectives. We have these "bad" jobs also here, people in those jobs are half-assing them, are rude or just quit. In Japan, at least from my experience, it's the conservative conformity…

Most of the things you mentioned here is why I like Japan more han the Western world. To be fair, Japan isn’t perfect. But a lot of things make sense for us. Are you a westerner? It seems that your way of thinking is just different than ours. We value things differently. For example, have you ever stopped to consider that maybe Japanese woman prefer to be in traditional role? The western world has a lot of problems t…

Please don't misunderstand me. Maybe I wasn't precise enough with my thoughts. My main point was:

Western people are often pro Japan but anti China. If people would apply the same norms, this wouldn't be possible as there is clearly a double standard.

My wish is that Western people (i am one of then) stop apply their world view, norms and values to everyone else on this planet. We believe that so many things that define us are universal and we expect that all people around the world start demanding that and thinking that.

I totally understand your pointed that harmony, order, hierarchy works for you and many other countries. I respect that - however I like many Western norms better because they work better for me. It doesn't mean that I want that Japan or China stop behaving the way they behave.

I am an advocate for your points.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#147

Post by causality0 »

deltaonefour wrote: post #140
freediver wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A counter argument is that US has a very developed suburban living culture with families living in houses. And while obviously this is comfortable living, you then need a car to get to the city center. Having said that, I agree that nothing beats the walkability of European cities, quality of living wise. US has a lot to learn from that.

This type of urban design is unsustainable. It is the reason why the US is number one at producing greenhouse gases.

The US is neither the largest producer of greenhouse gases nor the largest producer per capita.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#148

Post by analog31 »

conradev wrote: post #121
danielrpa wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the US need to have traditional cities? I grew up in a high density city overseas and I can see the appeal of both types of city. I personally prefer low density, car centric cities (obviously we need to finish solving the emissions problem from cars, but that's separate).

Cars are expensive and use an enormous amount of energy. You can buy dozens of e-bikes for the price of one EV, and charge dozens of e-bikes from one fully charged EV battery. EVs do not fix the emissions problem, as most emissions are from brake and tire residue.

>>> most emissions are from brake and tire residue.

That's not plausible... think about how much gas a car consumes per year, compared to the amount of mass of tires and brake pads consumed. Even minimizing my car use, I fill up the tank every few weeks. The wear from my tires is barely visible on a week-to-week basis. I don't think they're even within an order of magnitude.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#149

Post by bedobi »

flor1s wrote: post #132
bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

I think Tokyo still has too many cars (and plenty of two or three lane roads) and Japan as a whole isn't really bicycle friendly. The city is very dense however and the cost of parking spaces makes cars only accessible to upper class families.

I actually agree with this. Tokyo isn't like Amsterdam, where there is an explicit goal to reduce reliance on cars. Instead, the relative lack of cars is kind of an accident resulting from other policies and ideas. I'll take it over explicit and deliberate car-centrism, but I do wish Japan was more like the Netherlands - that would be perfection.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#150

Post by CryptoPunk »

88840-8855 wrote: post #108
ipiz0618 wrote: post #51

Tokyo, and most big Japan cities, are probably the only cities I could visit regularly without getting bored. Whether it's cuisine, the shops, or the people, it felt like a home away from home. It's surely super crowded in some areas, but you don't have to go there either. There are plenty of areas where you could enjoy a quiet (literally) afternoon sipping a good coffee without having to queue up. Also, it's so damn…

That's the thing. It's a super great place when you are a tourist. I lived there and I saw the bad sides, too. To keep this amazing tidyness, order, extremely high quality of service, people go to their limits - with low pay and low perspectives. We have these "bad" jobs also here, people in those jobs are half-assing them, are rude or just quit. In Japan, at least from my experience, it's the conservative conformity…

I think you are also not looking at the other side of the coin. People work hard at low-paying jobs in Japan, true. That leads to services being much more affordable, so those low-wages go further.

And I know you weren't taking the counter position to this, but there are also many intangible benefits from the values you mentioned being preeminent in Japan.

More traditional families means fewer children raised in single-parent households, and thus lower incarceration rates, and fewer anti-social types leaving paths of destruction through society.

More aggressive policing means less drug use and no opioid epidemic claiming tens of thousands of lives each year. It also means far less violence on the streets. See how many people are knifed and bottled in the UK for contrast. Not having to worry about random outbursts of terrifying violence makes for a significantly higher quality of life, with people feeling like they have more genuine freedom.

More discipline means no riots with hundreds of millions of dollars in businesses going up in flames.

And a more conservative culture allows the laws that make all of the above possible to remain in place instead of being swept away in counter-culture social movements that rail against traditional values.

Post reply on HN