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Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

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Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#141

Post by noisy_boy »

juancampa wrote: post #121
noisy_boy wrote: post #86

Though I'm ok with my Thinkpad X1E Gen 2 (not super happy but ok), I had made up my mind about Framework being my next machine. Now with Asahi Linux's progress, build quality of the Macbook combined with flexibility of Linux makes it a serious option. Very interested to see how things turn out on both these fronts in next few years.

I'm curious, what don't you like about the X1E? I have a Gen 3 and it's super wonky with an external monitor, nvidia + linux seems to still be a mistake.

Battery life isn't great (I occasionally take it out for about 2-2.5 hours which it does manage but a longer duration would probably kill it). Once froze and refused to resume when I tried to put it on standby and I had to do multiple hard resets to somehow make it going again (could be related to S3 config in BIOS) - scared me off to ever try to standby again. Also, I think you are 100% correct on Nvidia + Linux point; I did an upgrade to Nvidia driver version 460 (I think) and it basically made everything so slow that it was unusable. When I tried to downgrade, apt showed that uninstalling the driver would uninstall entire pop-desktop so had to do some hacks to downgrade back to version 450. Thankfully everything works well with that version including multiple external displays so I have locked the version via Synaptic. But yeah, not a great overall experience; someone less experienced with Linux might have (justifiably) given in to frustration and switched to Windows or Mac.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#142

Post by MathCodeLove »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #132
MathCodeLove wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had instead bought a $700 laptop 8 years ago, they likely would have had to upgrade several times by now.

800 dollar laptops today are more durable than M1 with max 16 GB of RAM at double the price, because their RAM is actually upgradable most of the time. It's so funny see Mac fans argue about everything and its contrary that it's worth the obvious down votes.

I don't own any Apple products.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#143

Post by cruano »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #21
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you'll get downvoted into oblivion for your PoV by the pro-Apple HN crowd and even though I do agree with you to some extent on the the high pricing (a basic M1 MacBook is half my NET take home pay as a dev in Europe, and double my rent costs) but value is subjective to most people, and for most, buying into the Apple ecosystem the value the ecosystem brings to their lives is justified, otherwise they would…

well, truth is Apple MacBook Air 13 with 16 GB of RAM is listed at € 1.429 on the Italian Apple web site. My sister bought a Lenovo thinkbook with a Ryzen 7, 16 GB of RAM (upgradable up to 32) for € 729 My 3D artist friend an Asus ROG 14 with an NVidia GPU and 32GB of RAM for € 1.780 and he's using it to render complex scenes. Does the increase in performance justify the ridiculous price? It doesn't, in my opinion. A…

So your 3D artist friend got a 1-pound-heavier machine with a plastic build that still gets beat in a single-core CPU benchmark, and he payed extra for that privilege. Let me know how it goes when he drops it.

Not to mention the unusable trackpad and keyboard, and the lack of video camera. Or even the fact that this machine gets super hot and loud, while an air doesn't even have fans.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#144

Post by dijit »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #134
simonh wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can’t a luxury product range have entry level models? Even Ferrari has cars ranging in price from $220k up to $1m. Search for “Ferrari entry-level” and you’ll get plenty of hits using that phrase for various Portofino, Spider and Roma configurations.

That's not what they say: they say it's cheap. Luxury is never cheap. An M1 can't be both entry level and better than high end models at the same price tag, at the same time (that's what they say). They are not in fact. Please leave Ferrari alone, they actually make cars that last for decades. Apple doesn't.

I can’t make this comment without seeming condescending, but please understand me when I say that I don’t intend it that way.

You’re having an emotional reaction to a brand and a product, and this is not ideal.

I struggle to deal with people who are emotional about brands, both love and hate because I find that there’s no room for objectivity or discussion. There are circumstances where interacting with a brand can be wholly toxic (Oracle) or largely good (Linux, if you can call it a brand). But when you only respond in an emotional way it prevents an intellectually curious discussion.

Stop thinking of these as “Apple” computers and instead look at them as.. computers.

It makes the trade offs a lot more obvious when you remove the emotive element.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#145

Post by opan »

gigatexal wrote: post #92
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But how many HP/Dell/Lenovo etc laptops do you have from 2013 that still run like new? many I don't see many old macs around, because they're harder and more expensive to repair. > if replaced every year that's a big if. The assumption is that Pro market will drive general adoption. It's a false premise. Pro market, especially Apple Pro market, it's predictive of exactly nothing.

> But how many HP/Dell/Lenovo etc laptops do you have from 2013 that still run like new? >> many I find that hard to believe. You're claiming plastic race-to-the-bottom laptop pc makers are building machines that last as long as all aluminium premium Macs? Fat chance. Re the software issue, yeah, that's a pain. I do plan on putting Linux on it when I replace it with another Mac laptop, probably a M1. But that just fu…

If you wanted your comparison to be as lopsided as it sounds like you were thinking it was, you should've listed different companies. All three of those companies make high-end business laptops (EliteBook, Latitude/Precision, ThinkPad) that are absolutely built to last and have a cult following for it (ThinkPads especially). You should've listed Acer or some of the gaming brands to represent the ones that don't seem to last. I can say personally I have a ThinkPad X220T (Sandy Bridge) and ThinkPad T440p (Haswell) that are still working great. I sold a ThinkPad T60p just a few years ago that was still working as well, although it was showing its age with its 2GB of RAM and 32bit CPU (upgradable to a 64bit Core 2 Duo in theory).

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#146

Post by dijit »

gigatexal wrote: post #95
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But how many HP/Dell/Lenovo etc laptops do you have from 2013 that still run like new? many I don't see many old macs around, because they're harder and more expensive to repair. > if replaced every year that's a big if. The assumption is that Pro market will drive general adoption. It's a false premise. Pro market, especially Apple Pro market, it's predictive of exactly nothing.

> that's a big if. > The assumption is that Pro market will drive general adoption. > It's a false premise. > Pro market, especially Apple Pro market, it's predictive of exactly nothing. Hah. It is actually. Apple releases the MacBook Air... what does the PC market do in lock step? Try to copy it. We can thank Apple for insisting on SSDs in the laptop for all our PC laptops having them. When Apple moves industries fo…

This is true for the good and bad.

Apple removed CD drives and Ethernet ports: everyone does.

Apple removes HDMI, many do.

Apple removes headphone jack from phones: everyone mocks, the follows.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#147

Post by Filligree »

dagw wrote: post #78
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you sacrifice if you get e.g. an Asus ROG Strix G15 ? It is benchmarking pretty close to the M1 Pro, and you can get it for around $1800.

Weight and real world battery life would be two things. Almost certainly build quality. The screen almost certainly isn't as nice. Even if the overall 'macro' bench marks are the same, it almost certainly won't beat the Macbook in day to day 'micro benchmarks' I care about like time to open a new terminal, time to run npm install, time to wake when I open the lid, time from login to watching Netflix, time to search t…

At least on the 2021 model G14/15, sleep is outright disabled. They never did get it to work. There's also a relay-based cutoff for the discrete nvidia gpu, because that was the only way Asus could find to prevent phantom power draw on battery.

It still doesn't have anywhere near as good battery life as a macbook, and while the CPU is fast, it's slower than the M1.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#148

Post by simonh »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #134
simonh wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can’t a luxury product range have entry level models? Even Ferrari has cars ranging in price from $220k up to $1m. Search for “Ferrari entry-level” and you’ll get plenty of hits using that phrase for various Portofino, Spider and Roma configurations.

That's not what they say: they say it's cheap. Luxury is never cheap. An M1 can't be both entry level and better than high end models at the same price tag, at the same time (that's what they say). They are not in fact. Please leave Ferrari alone, they actually make cars that last for decades. Apple doesn't.

I’d love to see a reference where Apple or anyone else says their products are cheap. It might be possible to argue they are good value for various reasons such as long product lifetimes, but that’s not the same thing as cheap.

> An M1 can't be both entry level and better than high end models at the same price tag, at the same time (that's what they say).

I have no idea what you’re referring to. Apple has some laptop models that are less expensive, I might even say cheaper, than others. That’s just comparing them relative to other Apple products though. The MacBook Air is cheaper than a MacBook Pro, that’s not the same thing as saying it’s objectively cheap relative to laptops generally. These are the entry level products in the MacBook product range.

You can get capabilities from even the low end M1 MacBooks that you can’t get from even very expensive notebooks from other manufacturers. You can get faster notebooks elsewhere, or lighter notebooks, or… actually no, you can’t get notebooks with better battery life anywhere else. However you can’t get the combination of lightness power and battery duration of even a low end M1 MacBook anywhere else at any price. That can absolutely make it better than more expensive models from other manufacturers in ways some people find very important.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#149

Post by dmitriid »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #134
simonh wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can’t a luxury product range have entry level models? Even Ferrari has cars ranging in price from $220k up to $1m. Search for “Ferrari entry-level” and you’ll get plenty of hits using that phrase for various Portofino, Spider and Roma configurations.

That's not what they say: they say it's cheap. Luxury is never cheap. An M1 can't be both entry level and better than high end models at the same price tag, at the same time (that's what they say). They are not in fact. Please leave Ferrari alone, they actually make cars that last for decades. Apple doesn't.

> An M1 can't be both entry level and better than high end models at the same price tag, at the same time

Yes. Yes they can. Because that's their new entry model in the new line-up. And can be both entry level and better than high-end models from the previous line-up.

These are entry models for Apple products. So no sense comparing them with entry models for other products (which could be shoddy plastic netbooks for all those brands care)

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#150

Post by kaba0 »

tambourine_man wrote: post #108
specialist wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. I'm not the target audience for Asahi as a daily driver. But I've used Linux to repurpose (life extension) my older macs. So this work is fills me with joy and appreciation. Also, the comparison of A14 and M1 (aka "A14X") gives me hope that I can eventually repurpose my old iPads and iPhones. There was an iPodLinux project, back in the day. I have no idea what the options are today.

>gives me hope that I can eventually repurpose my old iPads and iPhones That would involve jailbraking. The nice thing about the M series Macs is that there is an offical way to run alternative OSs, AFAIK. Something that should be required by law after X number of units sold IMO, but that's another conversation altogether.

To give credit where it is due, I remember one member from the project mentioning that Apple actually did quite stellar work to enable other OSs while still maintaining a secure booting mechanism (for both osx and future third party ones!)
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