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Opt Out of Cynicism

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Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#141

Post by wruza »

Barrin92 wrote: post #68

I'm pretty sure I fall into the definition of a cynic given in the piece "according to cynics, the world operates in a certain way, the elites are always the same, and will always be the same. The cynics think we are always playing the same game that has always been played. For example, a cynic may think that media’s only purpose is to sells your attention to advertisers - like I did here. And often they might be rig…

I'm not chronically depressed or antagonistic because of it, but I think I'd rather have what I'd consider a realistic and true view of the world as it is rather than anything else.

I knew some cynical folks and you do not seem to be one of them. The criteria is not how objectively you view the world, but how you act on it. E.g. someone “redirects” the train of medicine for troops in a conflict, because anybody would do that if it wasn’t them (and spent this money on things much worse than they planned). Someone figuratively spits onto a guy operating a gate, because he didn’t choose to have a good time in his life anyway.

And they are right – that train would never make it to its destination, and a gate operator made a mistake in their career. But once you accept that as how the world works naturally, it’s easy to just go and take it, cause you’re not that bad, bad is the world. That is cynical. Simply seeing things as they are is not.

One of the strongest medicines against cynical mindset which I’ve tried is to do a “no-complain challenge” (from tfa)

I don’t know, maybe it works for them, but if I would no-complain everyday, I believe I’d become cynical AF. Our local prisoners have the rule: do not seek the truth, i.e. do not complain about anything, it is what it is. Everyone experiences it and your problem is irrelevant. This teaches them to live on their own, ignore any unfairness, and get whatever they can whenever they can. Long-term convicts basically live by these rules.

Of course there are levels of cynicism, and maybe it’s all about moderate levels of it, not extreme ones.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#142

Post by brazzy »

shrimpx wrote: post #136

What do you do when the context itself is cynical? Like an authoritarian regime. In those cases “just being optimistic” is a laughable suggestion. This extends to the class and race struggle within “free” societies. To me, there’s a deep link between being oppressed and being cynical. When you’re left without choices you develop a “fixed” mindset.

Everyone has choices. Authoritarian regimes are overthrown, slavery outlawed, political and economic participation broadened. The world is, very objectively, tremendously better to live in for the vast majority of people, than it was 200 years ago.

Sure, there are contexts where the individual's choices that could lead to substantial improvement are so risky and the chances of success so small that it's rational not to try. But that's still a choice. All that cynicism does is dress up that choice as having no alternatives so you can feel better about it. Which is a totally human and understandable thing to do, but can easily be taken too far and applied in contexts where individual incremental improvements are absolutely possible and have a good chance of success.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#144

Post by quincunx »

Daishiman wrote: post #88
unmole wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your last paragraph remind me also of the Viktor Frankl's "Man Search For Meaning" where the change in outlook was a difference between persevering and perishing in the camps. Which is complete and utter nonsense. Sure, it makes for nice advertising for Frankl's Logotherapy shtick but it's not an accurate picture of what happened in the camps.

The fundamental point of people giving up vs resisting is the core thesis of Frankl and has rung true to every facet of life. Even if we are to assume his story is embellished, I have seen it played out time and time again.

Can you elaborate a bit on "resisting"?

Been a while since I read it, but iirc one of his examples is of fellow captives telling themselves they'll be free before the new year, then the new year comes, still not free, and those would be the first ones to go (your "giving up").

But the alternative I never took as "resisting" - but "purpose." Frankl's own purpose being the study of people under such extreme conditions, but his point (again, iirc) being that having that indefinite, daily, purpose is what keeps people alive and brings meaning.

Now, granted, it's been a while since I read it, but can you provide some color to this notion of "resisting" ? It'd be interesting if you took something completely different away from it (or if I remember it incorrectly and should be corrected.)

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#146

Post by DeathArrow »

evrydayhustling wrote: post #21

Another good quote for the OP is Miguel De Cervantes, author if Don Quixote: "there is madness in too much sanity, and the greatest madness of all is to see things as they are instead of as they should be". He would know: Cervantes killed a rival on a duel at 17 and fled to sea. They were attacked by pirates and he fought well before getting his hand blown off and taken prisoner. He lived in captivity but befriended…

>Another good quote for the OP is Miguel De Cervantes, author if Don Quixote: "there is madness in too much sanity, and the greatest madness of all is to see things as they are instead of as they should be".

I admire heroes but I don't want to be one. I rather live a happy life than be another sad story who inspires people.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#147

Post by avgcorrection »

moksly wrote: post #124
louhike wrote: post #118

Isn’t it cynicism (or idealism) just a survival strategy which happens because of your experiences? I know I tend to be more cynical than most of my peers but I always attributed that to growing up in poverty unlike them. Sometimes it seems a lot of people think others can apply their way of thinking or seeing the world and it will make their life instantly better. But I don’t think it can happen if they don’t live i…

That is a really sad outlook to me. After decades in Enterprise IT, many in the public sector of Scandinavia you’d probably expect me to be a cynic, and if you go through my post history you’ll see very recent examples of what looks like it, but I’m actually always rather optimistic. The healthy survival strategy in a world of shit isn’t to give up, it’s to fight on and hope for the best. It’s to come to the conclusi…

> In all my decades of working close to the political leadership and the top level decision makers, I can’t remember once meeting someone who wasn’t working for what they believed to be a better tomorrow.

The cynic in me thinks that people who tend to rub shoulders with The Powerful tend to (for the most part) see them as well-intentioned (although perhaps flawed) people rather than to be critical of them. Because it’s better for your own self to have friends in high places than to truly look at what they do with dispassionate eyes.

I don’t even need to get into how The Powerful are viewed by most people (who are more of at a distance) who don’t have such incentives.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#148

Post by atoav »

In my experience cynics are just people who are afraid of the things they wish to be true, never becoming true, so they start to prophetically denounce the possibility of them ever being true to lift themselves of the curse of the hopes they hold deep inside. A bit like pessimists, but with one degree more of emotional disconnection — a disconnection of which they are sometimes proud of. Everybody knows the cynic telling their disappointed collegue how the signs have been there all along, how they should have known. Hope and actual positive attempts as a sign of being naive.

It is a defense mechanism, that they often confuse with "realism". A defense mechanism that also can successfully protect them of ever becoming happier or being part of any improvement in their environment.

The more you can actually do about it the less sense cynicism makes.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#150

Post by avgcorrection »

> According to cynics, the world operates in a certain way, the elites are always the same, and will always be the same.

This already betrays a cynical outlook: “the elites are always the same”.[1] Yes, the world has been run by elites since the agricultural revolution. So now it’s just a fact of life (to the author). Attempts at egalitarianism (i.e. from capitalism to socialism to communism) have failed.

That’s what I am cynical about.

[1] Although you might be perfectly OK with this and thus not a “cynic” about it if you own more wealth than a certain threshold.

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