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How to Save a Ski Town

outsideonline.com

141–150 of 298 posts

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#141

The problem is pretty simple; the stock of mountain resort towns has not kept up to satisfy demand. Imagine 15 or 20 years ago, a trip to a somewhat remote mountain town had a lot of inconveniences like bad internet, unpredictable weather/travel conditions, etc. In the current year, it's very easy to book an entire trip to Vail/Tahoe in 30 minutes. The amenities and infrastructure are decent making it a viable place…

> the local lodging industry absolutely hated competition since those 15+ person family reunion style groups were paying half as much on a VRBO...

It's not just the cost--the market has changed. Hotels are like cable companies or pre-iTunes record labels. People prefer renting a private, detached, house rather than a bunch of hotel rooms because it's a nicer experience having a shared space with your whole group away from strangers.

Families can dry their ski clothes by the fire while hanging out in a living room while grandma makes her famous gnocchi for dinner. Then they can go to bed at a reasonable hour. Meanwhile, a group of friends can get drunk in another rental until the sun rises. These two incompatible personas don't have to interfere with one another[0]

Okay, yes, there are hotels with cabins. These are still too close together and not big enough to accommodate what the market wants out of a vacation experience. It's the difference between five friends paying $4k for business class seats versus spending $20k to charter a private jet and splitting it.

[0] We're assuming the friends stay indoors and aren't a neighborhood nuisance--certainly not always the case, but sometimes people get drunk responsibly.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#142
>Unchained from their desks, the hordes of newly remote white-collar workers descended upon all the magical mountain towns, and in just one year, the median list price for a home in Crested Butte jumped 40 percent, to $895,000. Rents soared, too—20 to 40 percent in Colorado ski towns like Crested Butte, according to one June 2021 report.

The market adjusts if it is correct to adjust, at least probably, according to the probably efficient market hypothesis. The question is whether it's correct for the market to adjust.

Is it a durable trend for computer-based work to be performed from the comfort of far-flung locales? Because this would probably change the demand for, and therefore the construction and presence of, housing all over the place. Crested Butte happens to be first on the list; just wait until they discover Ocracoke.

But housing can't just appear and disappear willy-nilly. It's heavy, for one thing. So yes, the solution to a durable increase in housing demand is to build more housing.

What about a transient increase in demand? Suppose a bunch of people want housing but won't in five years. Suppose we know this, just for the sake of a simpler analysis (cf. for the sake of argument). What then?

The most common suggestion I've heard, in the second scenario, says you probably want some way to ensure that the people who are likely to stick around don't all get driven out. This is where you start to look at policies like rent control and property tax abatements for long-term owners. This also includes affordable housing incentives of various kinds.

But these policies conflict with construction and therefore long-term planning in municipal policymaking. Over the long-term, concealing a durable increase in demand with stringent tenant protections creates a double standard and a new kind of inequality. This is one case where a political debate turns into a prognostication contest. Unfortunately, fortune-tellers have a poor track record regardless of political leanings.

Optimistically, we can plan for both eventualities at once, as long as we're clear about what we're doing. A major barrier to the compromise option is the tendency for political polarization to poison the well. Advocates of tenant protection raise spurious "positive-feedback" objections to upzoning, citing effects that disappear in well-controlled studies. Advocates of housing deregulation overestimate the impact of modernized affordability incentives, and underestimate or ignore the possibilities for innovation and general social benefits thereof.

I'm arguing for uncertainty. I generally support housing construction wherever it's fiscally sound. But we can't expect that construction to materialize where the market isn't convinced it's necessary, simply because it would meet our social objectives. And we can't ignore the future to meet social objectives right now.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#143

The problem is pretty simple; the stock of mountain resort towns has not kept up to satisfy demand. Imagine 15 or 20 years ago, a trip to a somewhat remote mountain town had a lot of inconveniences like bad internet, unpredictable weather/travel conditions, etc. In the current year, it's very easy to book an entire trip to Vail/Tahoe in 30 minutes. The amenities and infrastructure are decent making it a viable place…

When dealing with mountains, ground water scarcity is a serious issue, so “just build” is fairly tough to do.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#144

There are a lot of comments about eliminating investment properties and providing subsidized housing. Why don't we let the market work itself out? Let's see how magical Crested Butte is in a few years with no intervention. I suspect you'll be able to get a nice ski-in/ski-out condo at a significant discount when there are no longer any businesses open in the town.

Markets tend to be pretty bad at dealing with huge and relatively sudden shocks without causing a ton of harm to incumbents (i.e. existing residents who live and work there).

The world is changing rapidly year by year. And if change is necessary to accommodate it, we’re better off realizing all the negative consequences sooner rather than later… especially if later means it has snowballed into something far larger and more painful (e.g. US mortgage subsidies).

Markets tend to just look bad, but I think they’re more realistic. While the government will pay someone for a job/pension to do something that was made obsolete in the 70’s, the free market appropriately makes him redundant. The former isn’t better. It’s a deadweight loss to society, even if it appears more humane.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#145

I lived in Park City, UT throughout much of the 1990s and early 2000s. My family had a home in Telluride, so I’m familiar with the situation there, as well. I have an idea for a solution that I’m surprised was not mentioned. It’s simple: impose a heavy tax on unoccupied vacation homes but offer an exemption for owners who house one local worker on the property year-round. The concept is that the owner of a big vacati…

100%, the amount of houses that are just sitting up at Park City, Sun Valley, [insert popular ski town] is shocking.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#146

The problem is pretty simple; the stock of mountain resort towns has not kept up to satisfy demand. Imagine 15 or 20 years ago, a trip to a somewhat remote mountain town had a lot of inconveniences like bad internet, unpredictable weather/travel conditions, etc. In the current year, it's very easy to book an entire trip to Vail/Tahoe in 30 minutes. The amenities and infrastructure are decent making it a viable place…

The problem described in this article is not a shortage of housing for those who want 2nd homes in places like Crested Butte (although that may well be a problem of its own).

The problem being described is the infeasability of the people who work in these towns to be able to live there.

You can double or triple the number of mountain resort towns, and perhaps that would ease the "challenge" of being able to afford a 2nd home there. But by itself it will have almost no impact in the challenge faced by the people who work in these towns.

As the article noted, and as others have highlighted in comments, most mountain resort towns are intensely space-constrained, "just build more" is generally not an option for a given town. I doubt that "just build more mountain resort towns" is a solution either.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#147

I lived in Park City, UT throughout much of the 1990s and early 2000s. My family had a home in Telluride, so I’m familiar with the situation there, as well. I have an idea for a solution that I’m surprised was not mentioned. It’s simple: impose a heavy tax on unoccupied vacation homes but offer an exemption for owners who house one local worker on the property year-round. The concept is that the owner of a big vacati…

> It’s simple: impose a heavy tax on unoccupied vacation homes but offer an exemption for owners who house one local worker on the property year-round.

TFA mentioned explicitly that CB's proposal (not approved by the electorate) was a tax on unoccupied vacation homes with an exemption for owns who house one local worker on the property for at least 6 months of the year.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#148

There are a lot of comments about eliminating investment properties and providing subsidized housing. Why don't we let the market work itself out? Let's see how magical Crested Butte is in a few years with no intervention. I suspect you'll be able to get a nice ski-in/ski-out condo at a significant discount when there are no longer any businesses open in the town.

Famous last words; would love to see where Crested Butte is at in five years. The only business that will be left will be the ones supporting the rich second homers why wouldn't it just stay like that or even get worse?

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#149

I was born and raised in a small ski town that was a "hidden gem" for a long time. This article covers the issues well. In one year, it all changed. Housing prices and rent increased drastically -- sometimes by 2x or 3x. Half of my friends and acquaintances have had to move out of town and commute for work. What does it say when a city's essential workers cannot vote on city issues anymore? The city is not legally al…

Sounds like a problem that'll fix itself if no businesses can hire. Unfortunately it will probably be on a long time frame.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#150
post #99
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Switzerland I can walk out of my urban flat carrying my skis, get on a train, and get dumped at the base of a lift an hour or two later. One or two-transfer public transportation from city center to base lift. There's no reason you have to live at the ski areas.

You can do the same from many places in Salt Lake City. If you live close to the canyons it can be as little as 25 minutes via Bus - but if you live that close you might drive to make it 15.

Utah sucks, go to Colorado
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