Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

clubnft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 195 posts

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#141

Post by originalcvk »

mdoms wrote: post #106

> We at ClubNFT fired up a massive AWS instance with 40TB of EBS disk space to attempt to download this, with a cost estimate of $10k-20k over the next month, Is this for real? Why would they do it this way? I can buy 20TB of storage for less than $1000 (in New Zealand, no doubt far far cheaper in USA). Using one fifth of my residential gigabit bandwidth that would take just over a day to download. Why on Earth would…

Because when we heard about this it was about 2am and we wanted to get it going ASAP to see what was actually in there. It did not actually take a month, since this all happened two days ago. I think if we decided to become a torrent downloading company (is that a thing?) we'd go about it a different way. Anyway total actual cost (wasted, in this case) was a few hundred bucks.

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#142

Post by Volundr »

capableweb wrote: post #130
zepto wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like there only was one Bitcoin that was indivisible. You can transfer it to other addresses, but there can only be one at a time. That's all there is to it. Such a token is inherently worthless. The only value comes from rights that token can confer. That’s why people are trying to associate them with objects of real-world value.

> Such a token is inherently worthless Do you see data as being inherently worthless as well? Because that's all there is, data. And according to the current market, it's not worthless, just like even if some people consider Bitcoin to be inherently worthless, there is a market that says it isn't.

Here's some data: 0.416411230181442

What's that worth? Data by itself is inherently worthless. It's only worth something if it represents something we care about. This could be something fictional (e.x. a video game world), or real (a warehouse inventory), but on it's own? Worthless.

You say an NFT is a cryptocurrency with a single individual token and... what? It's a piece of data, but what can I do with it or what can I get out of it? I can send it to someone else? Cool, what can they do with it? What benefit is there? That's the big question I've at least yet to seen answered satisfactorily.

I get there's a market for this currently, but once upon a time there was a market for pet rocks (which unlike NFTs can at least be pleasing to look at). Markets can be irrational, and the fact that there is a market price for something does not inherently mean that something has value.

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#143

Post by zepto »

capableweb wrote: post #130
zepto wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like there only was one Bitcoin that was indivisible. You can transfer it to other addresses, but there can only be one at a time. That's all there is to it. Such a token is inherently worthless. The only value comes from rights that token can confer. That’s why people are trying to associate them with objects of real-world value.

> Such a token is inherently worthless Do you see data as being inherently worthless as well? Because that's all there is, data. And according to the current market, it's not worthless, just like even if some people consider Bitcoin to be inherently worthless, there is a market that says it isn't.

Your response is a non-sequitur.

I said: “The only value comes from rights that token can confer.”

Did you not see that?

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#144

Post by Volundr »

gfodor wrote: post #125
evan_ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For $6,500 USD I will create a GitHub repo called “A Bridge in Brooklyn” containing your name in the readme. You may consider the commit ID your non-fungible token. If you wish to sell it I will add another commit with the new owner’s name after I receive a $500 “gas fee”. I will have my kid draw a picture of a bridge and send you a JPG of it; you can put that on Meta Horizon as many times as you want. Naturally like…

No, that doesn’t meet my requirement above. Nothing does, because Meta doesn’t impose the constraint I am talking about: it was a hypothetical example to try to convey to you the dynamics going on regarding NFTs that you seem to think you fully understand.

Isn't that the point though? Every time I try to figure out the value of this thing called an "NFT" I can find plenty of hypotheticals, but I've yet to encounter anything concrete. Using your example you want to be the only one who can use this "thing" in Meta Horizon. Cool, but that's something Meta Horizon has to implement, and they don't need some weird blockchain thingy to do it.

If someone buys an NFT what good is it today, or what problem can it solve in future that can't more simply be solved by something that already exists?

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#145

Post by nefitty »

gfodor wrote: post #134
zepto wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s perfectly fair to say that NFTs work as an in-game currency and nothing more.

If you presume that we will in large part be continually living in a video game of varying levels of immersion relatively soon then this becomes something fairly significant.

Zuckerberg's moves make sense in this context. NFT's make sense in it as well.

I don't feel compelled to play video games, and I don't feel interested in joining an AR metaverse. That might just be personal shortcoming clouding my expectations of Web3...

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#146

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

_gf4m wrote: post #114
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't use any copy of the png to interact with other services, since there is only one service that allows for the interactive capabilities, and it requires ownership of the token to access. This makes no sense. Given any possible interaction you could have with a PNG some other service can replicate it. They could choose to do so with alternative NFTs pointing to the same PNGs, or just let you use any PNG at y…

It's pretty simple really. You just seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what an NFT actually is. It is simply a single issue token. The current implementation is nearly 100% for art purposes, in that they are tokens that point to cloud storage. As a developer I can create whatever services I want, based off of a determined, finite collection of single issue tokens. The token can do whatever the developer o…

> It's pretty simple really. You just seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what an NFT actually is.

People keep saying this, but I'm pretty sure I know what it is. But what I'm asking is: what in god's name is it actually good for, other than scams?

> Just because there is a ton of hype in the technology and people are making get quick rich schemes left and right with really low effort collections, please don't rule out the tech entirely.

But this is precisely what you're doing with it too! Your service is just creating generative art and minting an NFT for it, from what I can tell, with the sole intention of convincing people to pay for the NFT so you can make money. From the sounds of it, the NFT is just the authentication token, perhaps signing some set of parameters that determine the "unique" generative algorithm that the user "bought". Sure, fine, whatever, but you could have done that with boring old certificates and a database. What value, other than NFT hype, did putting it on a decentralized trustless blockchain do for you?

People keep trying to sell this as some revolutionary technology and I just don't see it.

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#147

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

capableweb wrote: post #135
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and the entry in any particular star register's registry is the same thing. They have provenance over their registry, nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, but you cannot act within their registry as a independent actor, transferring and receiving items in the registry on your and others will. They own that registry, and they chose to give you access. That's the difference between a centralized registry like that star registry, and a blockchain where every actor has equal access to the "registry". No one can stop you from transferring your NFT to someone else, whil…

Sure, but why would anyone want that? Why would I want to buy and sell access to some entry in a registry that ultimately means nothing?

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#148

Post by zepto »

gfodor wrote: post #134
zepto wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s perfectly fair to say that NFTs work as an in-game currency and nothing more.

If you presume that we will in large part be continually living in a video game of varying levels of immersion relatively soon then this becomes something fairly significant.

I partially agree with this. But then why all the bullshit? Why don’t people just come out and say that it’s all about in-game items for the metaverse rather than all the talk about owning media?

Nothing suggests that existing NFTs will be relevant in that world even if the technology is.

It’s also not obvious that a distributed ledger has an advantage over a centralized one.

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#149

Post by shiohime »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #146
_gf4m wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty simple really. You just seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what an NFT actually is. It is simply a single issue token. The current implementation is nearly 100% for art purposes, in that they are tokens that point to cloud storage. As a developer I can create whatever services I want, based off of a determined, finite collection of single issue tokens. The token can do whatever the developer o…

> It's pretty simple really. You just seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what an NFT actually is. People keep saying this, but I'm pretty sure I know what it is. But what I'm asking is: what in god's name is it actually good for, other than scams? > Just because there is a ton of hype in the technology and people are making get quick rich schemes left and right with really low effort collections, please d…

The best way I can describe my project to you is the difference between owning a room and owning a picture of a room. You cannot enter the room, only see it from a static angle based on the picture.

This is the fundamental difference between what my project can do and what a static image does. My service does not interact with the PNG, it interacts with the space that my program generated, and took a picture of. The user can connect their wallet, select their art, and explore the "room" generated with it.

To do this in web2 infra, like I said, is a much more complicated problem and would involve probably non-user friendly DRM. It's simply a different technology, and really if you don't understand it I hope there are more projects out there that come out in the next year that change your mind.

You can write off my project as a get rich quick scheme, but that is from a point of ignorance from someone that probably hasn't tried to create something on their own and market it. I'm creating a project, charging a very reasonable price, for interactive art. I don't really care about your opinion on if you think I'm trying to make money for providing a product.

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#150

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

chrisco255 wrote: post #113
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and the entry in any particular star register's registry is the same thing. They have provenance over their registry, nothing more, nothing less.

Clearly not. If an artist with an on-chain reputation such as Beeple creates a digital artwork and mints it on-chain and continues to do so over time and that artist's work becomes sought after, the reputation and history and story of that work being created and minted and transferred is as good as any other form of provenance. What makes the iTunes MP3 marketplace valuable? What makes the Amazon Kindle text file mar…

> What makes the iTunes MP3 marketplace valuable? What makes the Amazon Kindle text file marketplace valuable?

The law. Copyright law makes acquiring these works via other means slightly more difficult. Like NFTs they are just a failed attempt to force artificial scarcity into a post-scarcity space.

> Why does itunes and Kindle not bother you?

They do, but they don't have scammers constantly trying to sell their shit as some kind of revolutionary new future you have to get in on before you get left behind!!1!

> Does the convention and reputation-based open source nature of Web3 disturb you?

What disturbs me is the shift from people viewing artificial scarcity as a desperate grasping at straws from people who can't deal with information post-scarcity to people touting artificial scarcity as the glorious technological future.

Post reply on HN