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“The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

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Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#141

Post by JohnFen »

Vetch wrote: post #116
Azsy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the comparison holds well enough. The vast majority is in it in the hopes to get richer. its closer to tulip mania with a 'distributed' MLM pyramid scheme twist.

You're completely correct that over-exuberance, gambles and scams are playing a large role in the amount of money flowing. It is unclear whether the current level of openness compared to the usually highly elitist gate kept artworld will persist. There is nonetheless a clear mapping to physical art world collections in terms of owning a rare work by a skilled artist and having it connected to some trusted proof repre…

I don't see that mapping at all. If you own a rare work by a skilled artist, you are in possession of a unique physical item. If you own an NFT, you are not. All you "own" is proof that you paid some money to someone.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#142

Post by imgabe »

goda90 wrote: post #136
imgabe wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't prove that you own part of the moon at all. The moon is a physical object. To own it, you need to be able to prevent other people from using it, or have an authority that can do so recognize your ownership and do that on your behalf. The Moon shares don't do that. The NFT on the blockchain does prevent other people from using that NFT without your authorization.

What do you use an NFT for? In another comment, you say it's not the image. So what is it?

It's an entry in the blockchain. A record in a database.

Let's say you go to Sotheby's and you buy Van Gogh's Starry Night at auction. Along with the actual painting, you'd get a certificate of authenticity showing the provenance of the work. Basically, a record showing everyone who owned it before you and certifying that this is, in fact, the real Starry Night that Van Gogh painted. The real value of the painting is not in the painting itself, but in that certificate proving that it's the real original. If you tried to sell the painting without it, you wouldn't get many buyers. There's lots of people who could paint an exact replica of Starry Night, but there's still only one real Starry Night. Likewise, anyone can make a copy of a piece of digital art, but there's only one NFT, and if you don't have the NFT in your crypto wallet, you don't actually own it.

So, think of it as a certificate of authenticity for digital artworks, although it can be used to represent ownership of other things as well, if people agreed to it. It can also do neat things like transfer a portion of the sale price back to the original artist every time it's sold, which isn't currently done with regular artworks.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#143

Post by JohnFen »

GDC7 wrote: post #122
detaro wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... yes, licenses still rely on copyright law, well spotted. Is that supposed to be surprising or a novel insight?

How can you enforce copyright law when I right click an NFT piece of art, then print it and hang it in my home? You can't. Besides, NFT enthusiasts have the illusion that the graphic art market is big. It's not. Just think about how many people you know that have a painting in their home. And no, the IKEA type paintings do not count. I mean a genuine painting.

> How can you enforce copyright law when I right click an NFT piece of art, then print it and hang it in my home?

In the US, anyway, doing that would not be a copyright violation.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#144

Post by JohnFen »

leppr wrote: post #74
cm2187 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it does illustrate that NFT themselves are useless (other than being some sort of performance art). If you legally bought the right to something, what has value is not the NFT, it is the legal contract of the transaction. If you don’t sign a contract, the NFT is just a few bytes stored somewhere that have no consequences. The value is in the legal agreement.

There is more to art than a legal framework. That's an intentionally myopic view. Art NFTs are a social signal.

> Art NFTs are a social signal.

Which is what makes art NFTs particularly mockworthy.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#145

Post by JohnFen »

FatalLogic wrote: post #90
wpietri wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that be nice? Sure. Are NFTs likely to do that? No. Why would game/platform creators do a ton of work so they could make less money? And even if they wanted to, which they won't, why would they bless some specific blockchain with that power? If that is at all viable, somebody like Steam or Amazon will want it to be their own digital assets registry that wins. For that, they don't need a blockchain, just a datab…

>Why would game/platform creators do a ton of work so they could make less money? I know, right? Or to look at another similar situation: why would Verizon, China Mobile, T-Mobile, and AT&T all make their voice/data networks interoperable? Obviously, they wouldn't chose to do that.

They do that because of regulation, not because they want to.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#146

Post by goda90 »

imgabe wrote: post #142
goda90 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you use an NFT for? In another comment, you say it's not the image. So what is it?

It's an entry in the blockchain. A record in a database. Let's say you go to Sotheby's and you buy Van Gogh's Starry Night at auction. Along with the actual painting, you'd get a certificate of authenticity showing the provenance of the work. Basically, a record showing everyone who owned it before you and certifying that this is, in fact, the real Starry Night that Van Gogh painted. The real value of the painting is…

Except the real value is in the painting. If it were destroyed, then the certificate would be worthless. If the certificate were destroyed, you could have experts inspect the painting to see how old it is and compare minor defects to those found in duplicates to show its authenticity. No one would want to buy the certificate from you but let you keep the painting in your vaults

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#147

Post by 1ark »

Closi wrote: post #59
beardyw wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may just have opened a Pandora's box.

Well you can almost buy an NFT for a virtual plot of moon land in the moon metaverse. https://nftmoon.space/en/home/ How anyone thinks all this isn’t a bubble is beyond me…

Are games with virtual assets bubbles? The whole NFT space might be, but it's still value creation analog to games with virtual assets. Last 15 years we've gone from MMOs with lots of game and in some of them you could buy land plots, and of course shiny armor. To less game with casual mobile games and loot boxes, to now no game with social media flexing and NFTs.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#148

Post by 1ark »

imustbeevil wrote: post #53
motoxpro wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you could argue that Discord/Twitter is the game, which is a much bigger space than Fortnite or CSGO, meaning that the "skins" cost more. Instead of runing around a 3d character, you just type words on a web page/chat client and get points the more people see it.

Except to have some skin in a game, you actually have to have that skin in the game. To put a monkey as your profile picture on Discord or Twitter, you can just do that without owning the monkey. If anything, not owning it is better social proof.

Correct, but to get access to the "exclusive guilds" on Discord you need to verify your NFT for respective guild.

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#149

Post by 1ark »

mewse wrote: post #139
nathias wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and I have been using it since then, this is quite something else tho.

> this is quite something else In what way, specifically? From your original comment: "imagine something like steam profile avatars/pictures etc. tied to your identity that you can use on any page that implements it." That sounds 100% like Gravatar. We already have exactly that, without any of the problematic aspects of being tied to NFTs or blockchain.

Except trading of Gravatars, right?

Re: “The NFT Bay” Shares Multi-Terabyte Archive of ‘Pirated’ NFTs

#150

Post by imgabe »

goda90 wrote: post #146
imgabe wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an entry in the blockchain. A record in a database. Let's say you go to Sotheby's and you buy Van Gogh's Starry Night at auction. Along with the actual painting, you'd get a certificate of authenticity showing the provenance of the work. Basically, a record showing everyone who owned it before you and certifying that this is, in fact, the real Starry Night that Van Gogh painted. The real value of the painting is…

Except the real value is in the painting. If it were destroyed, then the certificate would be worthless. If the certificate were destroyed, you could have experts inspect the painting to see how old it is and compare minor defects to those found in duplicates to show its authenticity. No one would want to buy the certificate from you but let you keep the painting in your vaults

> Except the real value is in the painting. If it were destroyed, then the certificate would be worthless.

Not true. Banksy sold a painting for $1.4 million and it shredded itself right after the auction ended. Three years later the shredded remains (presumably with the certificate of authenticity) sold for $25.4 million[1]. So, no, the value is not in an intact painting.

Forgers can artificially age paintings. It's amazing the lengths they go to. Maybe something like Starry Night has been analyzed enough that it could be verified, but other works are not. It's not really known how many works of art on the market are forgeries.

> No one would want to buy the certificate from you but let you keep the painting in your vaults

Actually people do this all the time. They pay millions upon millions of dollars for a work of art and it gets loaned to a museum and possibly sent all over the world. They still own it though. There's also freeports[2] around the world with warehouses full of art. You can buy an artwork and it never moves from the warehouse, just the record of who owns it changes.

[1] https://nypost.com/2021/10/14/shredded-banksy-artwork-could-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_economic_zone

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