Live data from Hacker News

Fundamentals of Piano Practice

fundamentals-of-piano-practice.readthedocs.io

141–150 of 201 posts

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on what in it helped change your practice approach? I tried reading it a while back and I couldn’t really get past the style. I’m sure there is good advice in there, but it’s very off putting due to the rambling style.

The main takeaways for me were: - Do not try to practice the whole piece at once. Split it into pieces - Start by listening to the piece. If possible get multiple performances/recordings (usually easy with YouTube) to get a feel for different interpretations. - Take the piece and number each measure from 1 to finish. Figure out where the repetitions are, which measures are the easiest, which the hardest (this will di…

That all seems like pretty solid advice. Chunking the piece up but practicing overlapping parts is particularly good - if you neglect the overlapping part you can end up with obvious 'seams' in the piece when you put it all together.

Listening to the piece first is always helpful, but be careful not to become overly dependent on learning by ear - it can cripple your sight reading in the long run. Same goes for separate hand practice. While both of these can speed up your progress early on, becoming a good sight reader pays dividends later on.

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#142

I struggle with learning pieces by heart. It's my greatest regret that I need sheet music to enjoy the piano, some 40 years later since lessons began in typical classical format. My sight reading is impeccable. Any advice welcome.

I envy the fact that you can read music so well! I'm the opposite of you: I play by ear and I am mediocre at reading music.

I started piano lessons 9 years ago when I was 27. I had a background in marching band where we were not allowed to carry sheet music with us on the field for 4 years in college

I think that experience with marching band really forced me to develop my ear and learn to memorize music. Also I was terrible at reading music so I used my ear (which also wasn't that good) to fill in the gaps.

Eventually I became proficient enough at this that I could just listen to the other saxophone players and play what they were playing. I didn't know anything about keys, chords, intervals, or anything. I just played what I heard because I had no other choice.

Perhaps putting yourself in similar situations would be helpful. For example, I'm now a keyboard player in a band and I have to be able to learn a song that I've never heard at a moment's notice. That kind of pressure would force anybody to develop their ear because sheet music is just not as useful in that kind of setting.

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#143

I’m going to try this out. I’m excited. I’m a piano beginner and my lingering anxieties are: 1. Am I building bad habits? 2. Am I learning in first gear without realizing it?

Getting a teacher will without a doubt help with both of those things. Learning to play the piano is like trying to summit Mt. Everest while blindfolded. Technically speaking, you can do it alone but it's orders of magnitude easier with somebody guiding you. Sometimes all it takes is a nudge in the right direction. Other times they need to tell you specifically how to execute or understand an idea.

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What particular fingering looks odd to you? The only one I see, for the Invention in D, is basically the same as what's given in the Alfred edition of the inventions (and the Henle, and others...).

I just had a look at their example (BWV 775) and the first thing I noted was this: Second finger on the Bb in bar 8 makes no sense (there's no reason to not use the thumb there, especially as the following interval is a seventh). I hope the internet won't become flooded with sheet music that has bad auto-generated fingering, because it's something that you really trust. If I encounter some strange fingering I trust t…

> Second finger on the Bb in bar 8 makes no sense

It seems all the more illogical as very similar patterns occur in bar 2, 6, and 10, and the thumb is used every time there.

(Not a pianist myself)

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#145

From the last section in Chapter One, titled "Jazz, Fake Books, and Improvisation": > In summary, the process of learning this genre consists of practicing the chords and scales sufficiently so that, given a melody, you can “feel” the right and wrong chords that go along with it. That's only scratching the surface and will not get you playing jazz. Listening to and copying the greats - Bird, Monk, Evans, Coltrane, Ro…

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. Aspiring to jazz for over 20 years. Satie is easier, if no less interesting.

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#146
post #68

Have to chime-in here as a piano player since age 7 (so been going for ~28 now), who about 2 years ago got very serious about Jazz. I have stumbled across this book many times, I have read it. It's the single most controversial book that I've read about piano technique and playing that I've found. The author, is not even a player himself (!!!). There's a great summary of reviews about the book here ( https://www.pian…

I had to laugh out loud when I read that the author openly admits to not being a pianist or a piano teacher... but a physicist. It reminds me a lot of physicists I know who approach every problem with the assumption that they can do it better than people who have been trying to solve the problem long before. On occasion, they are right, but this clearly appears to be one of those other times.

Obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/793/

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#147

A good book. Although this statement: While writing it, I discovered that piano pedagogy had never been researched, documented, and analyzed properly is totally wrong. There's a Piano Pedagogy group just in the Bay Area, and lots of books on it. I was an Adult Beginner, which is sorta a Thing. My teacher had about 12 adult students, and we had separate recitals from the kids. The hidden reason for this is, you don't…

> OMG, in the recitals there was one lady who just had to play every note correctly, no matter how many times she had to try. She stopped at every mistake and "corrected" it, until you wanted to scream at her.

oh man, that is frustrating! Somebody once said that a good musician will make their mistakes sound musical. Thinking that you must stop to correct a mistake is a fundamental misunderstanding about how music is perceived. I don't blame her though, I was once like this too. I think this is the default behavior for many adult beginners especially.

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#148
Stunningly useful even if you're a proficient pianist.

Moreover, Chang's a techie—an experienced scientist—so there's no bullshit or unnecessary padding here. As such, he'll appeal to many HN readers who tinkle the ivories from time to time and who'd like to improve their technique.

P.S.: I found his piano tuning info/techniques most interesting. As a hacker who couldn't leave well enough alone and who managed to put my old upright well out of wack and sounding like bar piano out of an old Western movie, this info would have been absolutely invaluable.

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#149

A good book. Although this statement: While writing it, I discovered that piano pedagogy had never been researched, documented, and analyzed properly is totally wrong. There's a Piano Pedagogy group just in the Bay Area, and lots of books on it. I was an Adult Beginner, which is sorta a Thing. My teacher had about 12 adult students, and we had separate recitals from the kids. The hidden reason for this is, you don't…

I think you are being too hard on "adult beginners". I'm not sure if it is relatable but I'm learning guitar, just finished my second year self teaching it. I can't see myself as a guitar player just yet but I'm starting to have a clear perception of the stuff I have to learn and more importantly the stuff music players around me know and I'm pretty sure I can reach and overtake them. I'm thinking about "average level skills", there will always be a 8 years old kid with better abilities but I find the idea of comparing oneself to the whole world is unhealthy and far from fair. This doesn't apply only to music: the mere existance of Fabrice Bellard should prevent me from ever reaching a computer keyboard ever again.

I live in Italy, here there are two kind of musicians: 1) conservatory majors, with really really strong "fundamentals" but none to zero improvisation skills 2) other people who followed a learning path of anglo-saxon derivation, usually they have some degree of play-by-ear and improvisation skills but they show a severe lack on fundamentals skills. By "fundamentals" I mean sight reading (meant as sight reading on first sight, everyone can read with enough time), ability to sing what you want to play in tune before playing it, strong inner sense of time and subdivision, knowledge of theory and harmony. Side note: if you ever see musicians perform in Italy (maybe this applies to other European countries like Germany and France too) there is a very easy way to recognize if they have a classical / conservatory background: look at their feet. If they tap a foot there is a very strong chance they have no classical background as it is seen as the kind of baby wheels thing that prevents solfege from developing a strong inner sense of time.

Back on topic: as you can see there are these big two big subsets of music learning. What I'm doing is simply mix them: I study sight reading and solfege (trying to sing in tune) but at the same time I spend time transcribing by ear and following improvisation methods. There are some very strong sinergies in this: the ability to sing (in tune, not mumbling it) makes transcribing orders of magnitude easier. Same applies to knowledge of harmonic motions. Doing progressive reading exercises vastly improved my ability to play and understand odd rhythmic patterns to the point I can actually sense the lack of precision they have when I play in a garage band with my friends (not professional musicians but they have been playing for more than 20 years).

To make an even simpler example: I can play without looking at my guitar, a lot of people can't. This feel a lot like seeing people unable to type on a computer keyboard without looking at it.

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#150

I’m going to try this out. I’m excited. I’m a piano beginner and my lingering anxieties are: 1. Am I building bad habits? 2. Am I learning in first gear without realizing it?

Getting a teacher will without a doubt help with both of those things. Learning to play the piano is like trying to summit Mt. Everest while blindfolded. Technically speaking, you can do it alone but it's orders of magnitude easier with somebody guiding you. Sometimes all it takes is a nudge in the right direction. Other times they need to tell you specifically how to execute or understand an idea.

Definitely. Alas I’m not in a position to have that. Just yet, at least.

Nevertheless, in terms of optimization in the context of going it alone, having resources on _how_ to learn rather than _what_ to learn is great.

Post reply on HN