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UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

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Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#141

Post by TrispusAttucks »

basisword wrote: post #47
TrispusAttucks wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding ex-colonies: Don't we have to eventually "let bygones be bygones"? Otherwise, where do we draw the line? How far do we go back? Those original human perpetrators are long dead. "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin." ~ Deuteronomy 24:16

I'm not arguing that, it's a bigger debate. But claiming that the UK exists as it does because of a long commitment to freedom (when the colonies are a big example of the antithesis of freedom) is dishonest.

Perhaps, but there is some [1] history to suggest that the case could be made that the UK does have a long history of commitment to freedom.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28866094

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#142

Post by sudosysgen »

TrispusAttucks wrote: post #138
sudosysgen wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there are positives, but the UK's history is clearly not about freedom. The UK's history is subjugating a massive amount of people. So claiming that the UK has its historic achievements because of freedom is just blatant revisionism. You could definitely find some good things though.

That's fair. I need to brush up on it's history. Thanks for your comments! -- EDIT: Upon some cursory research I still am not sure I can agree with your assessment. -- [1] Bill of Rights : 1689 [2] United Kingdom : 1707 [3] Civil Liberties in UK : (various dates) [4] Magna Carta : 1215 [5] Parliamentary Privilege -- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom…

All of these things only applied to (part of) the population in Britain. Colonial subjects of the UK had none of these rights in practice, except for settlers.

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#143

Post by jf22 »

ghoward wrote: post #140
jf22 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, has any group been persecuted?

There's plenty of evidence from history that if a group is censored, it is persecuted thereafter. The evidence does not need to be from now .

Could be specific which "group" this is?

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#144

Post by TrispusAttucks »

sudosysgen wrote: post #142
TrispusAttucks wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair. I need to brush up on it's history. Thanks for your comments! -- EDIT: Upon some cursory research I still am not sure I can agree with your assessment. -- [1] Bill of Rights : 1689 [2] United Kingdom : 1707 [3] Civil Liberties in UK : (various dates) [4] Magna Carta : 1215 [5] Parliamentary Privilege -- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom…

All of these things only applied to (part of) the population in Britain. Colonial subjects of the UK had none of these rights in practice, except for settlers.

It seems gray to me. I will concede my perspective.

There is no history of the UK being enlightened by freedom.

;)

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#145

Post by archagon »

icare_1er wrote: post #50

Those who brought out Champagne when Trump was censored... watch out... sooner or later, you'll be the one censored, and no one will be there to help you.

No, I really won't, because I don't flagrantly violate Twitter and Facebook ToS day to day.

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#146

Post by gavinhoward »

jf22 wrote: post #143
ghoward wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of evidence from history that if a group is censored, it is persecuted thereafter. The evidence does not need to be from now .

Could be specific which "group" this is?

Jews (plenty of examples including the Holocaust). LGBT+ (unless you think that what happened to Alan Turing wasn't persecution). Muslims (by Christians and others). Christians (by Romans throwing them to the lions and others).

If there is a group, chances are it's been censored and persecuted.

I know that I'm supposed to assume the best, but with you it's pretty hard because history is so full of examples that it seems your question is not in good faith.

I also wasn't talking about one specific group. I was talking about what history shows about what happens to a group after it is censored. That is why I said "a group" instead of "this group" or "that group".

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#147

Post by airpoint »

valdiorn wrote: post #99
zimpenfish wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Davis does have a principled track-record in voting for civil liberties. Well, if you're British, sure? If you're an EU Citizen wanting to live or work in the UK, he was very much "they should have ID cards" in 2017.

As an EEA citizen living in the UK (now a citizen, but was here pre-brexit under EU freedoms) I see absolutely nothing wrong with the host state requiring me to carry an ID card. In fact, many countries require this for their own citizens, see Germany.

As an EEA citizen living in the UK, let me tell you that you’re missing the plot.

Whether you agree or not with the requirement of ID cards for EU nationals in the UK, doesn’t change the fact that David Davis repeatedly voted against extending one’s civil liberties, based on their nationality.

This is what the previous commenter noted, and is factually correct!

David Davis is a joke and his word is not worth more than his EU trade deal that never happened.

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#149

Post by caeril »

ColinHayhurst wrote: post #2

The video has now been restored: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VidUXZjzNVk Worth a watch. Should we "assume the best" by assuming this was taken down by AI, and without human check? MP says: “This is an outrageous attack on free speech. Throughout the pandemic we've seen blatant attempts by Big Tech to silence opposition voices challenging the conventional wisdom. This episode serves as a further example of the wor…

> wholly accurate & backed up with the latest scientific evidence.

Much of the problem comes down to the fact that the "science" changes quite frequently. When new evidence appears, which updates our Bayesian Priors ( airborne vs aerosol/fomites, vaccine type effectiveness, delta variant transmittivity, ventilator usefulness, lab leak hypothesis, comorbidity statistics, etc ) the Powers That Be rely on the pre-update "science" to determine if censorship is warranted.

One can argue if censorship of "disinformation" is a societal good, and I won't litigate that general matter here, but it becomes a particular point of contention if what is classified as disinformation changes with every Lancet publication.

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#150

Post by 0xy »

Traster wrote: post #123

It is worth noting, for those outside of the UK that David Davis has an absolutely brilliant track record of saying absolutely asinine nonsense. There's just no substance to what he says. No, I'm not talking about this video (although I have watched it and it's absolutely par for the course). He never talks with substance on any issue, and his main claim to fame was violating a binding vote of the house of commons to…

None of what you said justifies censorship so I'm not sure why it's even relevant to the discussion.
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